"Holden just needs to pay normal wages and it won’t need [Govt] handouts"

[peterljohnson55]

Herald Sun's political commentator, Andrew Bolt, reports that the Australian Financial Review's industrial relations columnist, Grace Collier, says ...

"there is a way to make Holden profitable that doesn’t involve more massive handouts from taxpayers .... If the Holden workers went back on to the award, Holden would be miraculously transformed. Labour costs would drop by somewhere between 50 and 75 per cent."

Now that is a novel approach - what do you think?

See the rest of Bolt's brief presentation of Collier's reasoning here...

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/a.../#commentsmore

[UberKnee]

Wont happen, people want as many perks as possible even if that means they don't have a job in a few years time.

[malazn mafia]

And if Australians paid normal grocery prices (US Prices) and there was no fuel tax, and GST down to 2.5% perhaps workers wouldn't need such high wages either...

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

And if Australians paid normal grocery prices (US Prices) and there was no fuel tax, and GST down to 2.5% perhaps workers wouldn't need such high wages either...

If there was no (or very little) fuel tax, sales tax, and entitlements, food prices could go down because the cost of running businesses (farms, FMCG companies, grocery stores) would be much lower. More businesses would be established, creating more choices, more jobs, and more competition; sales prices would drop as a result. But entitlements are better political sellers than proven economics because the majority of voters are emotional and love the word "rights" more than they want to acknowledge facts, even if it hurts them.

[Venomous1]

Prices never go down so why should my wages go down. bad business is bad business.

[karj]

And if the Herald paid Bolt a normal wage, News Corp Australia would have more money to spend on quality journalists.

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by Venomous1

Prices never go down so why should my wages go down. bad business is bad business.

Coles and Woolworths may disagree about the prices,
It could also be said that paying wages at 50-75% above the award is "bad business" too.
I pay my guys well above the award, but not any where near 50- 75% above, If that were the case they (and I) would be out of a job.

[Nikked]

Economy is a funny, frail thing. Bit like the butterfly effect...

One thing to say lower taxes, everything will be fine, but funding needs to come from somewhere...

[snailbate]

Originally Posted by peterljohnson55

Herald Sun's political commentator, Andrew Bolt, reports that the Australian Financial Review's industrial relations columnist, Grace Collier, says ...

"there is a way to make Holden profitable that doesn’t involve more massive handouts from taxpayers .... If the Holden workers went back on to the award, Holden would be miraculously transformed. Labour costs would drop by somewhere between 50 and 75 per cent."

Now that is a novel approach - what do you think?

See the rest of Bolt's brief presentation of Collier's reasoning here...

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/a.../#commentsmore

I would like to aske Mr Bolt would he like to lose between 50 and 75 $ of hes salary
thats a stupid idea
Terry

[burnz]

Originally Posted by velvet

Coles and Woolworths may disagree about the prices,
It could also be said that paying wages at 50-75% above the award is "bad business" too.
I pay my guys well above the award, but not any where near 50- 75% above, If that were the case they (and I) would be out of a job.

it's been touted that they are on $1000~$1100 pw

so that are over paid 50%???
so the trade wage is what $500~$550 pw gross? ...I wouldn't get out of bed. bag of rice $2 p/h

[99AUXR]

I'd like to see politicians lose some of their salary. . . .

[cheap]

Originally Posted by burnz

it's been touted that they are on $1000~$1100 pw

so that are over paid 50%???
so the trade wage is what $500~$550 pw gross? ...I wouldn't get out of bed. bag of rice $2 p/h

That the whole point of the argument, they should be paid commensurate to their duties, and their duties are not worthy of a +$100K wage

If you like paying for other people to be on over inflated wages go right ahead and keep the status quo. I suppose you also like paying government workers high wages for sitting on their butts pushing paper work around and making sure the public complies with their latest hair brain scheme. So let me tell you having been a private consultant to government, that is exactly what happens, they do have to justify their positions somehow.

And the cost of keeping these workers turning nuts, bolt, installing wiring and a raft of other menial duties is +$100K wages, which it seems is funded mostly by the taxpayer.

This once great country needs to realign itself with reality, we do need a car industry but it doesn't need +$100K workers doing what a robot can do...

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by burnz

it's been touted that they are on $1000~$1100 pw

so that are over paid 50%???
so the trade wage is what $500~$550 pw gross? ...I wouldn't get out of bed. bag of rice $2 p/h

I pay my employees above award rates, stated below plus work cover, super and holidays. I'd assume factory workers are on similar money but add all the "benefits" they receive (52 weeks redundancy for a start) and it costs a considerable amount on top of that.
.
BUILDING TRADESPERSON
HOURLY, **CASUAL 20% Loading



Registered Plumber
$22.76 $27.31
Plumber/Gasfitter
$22.28 **$26.74
Bricklayer
$22.05 **$26.46
Plasterer
$22.13 **$26.56
Carpenter / Joiner
$22.25 **$26.70
Plasterer
$21.57 **$25.88
Wall & Floor Tiler
$21.57 **$25.88
Bricklayer
$21.49 **$25.79
Roof Tile Fixer
$21.36 **$25.63
Painter
$21.15 **$25.40

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by cheap

That the whole point of the argument, they should be paid commensurate to their duties, and their duties are not worthy of a +$100K wage

Is their normal wage (ie. no overtime etc) really more than $100k?

[Windsor220]

I'd say they are on about 60k normal wage. If I remember correctly the award rate is roughly around $18 an hour so would drop to under 40k based on a normal 40 hour week.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Is their normal wage (ie. no overtime etc) really more than $100k?

If so, I'm in the wrong job.....

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Is their normal wage (ie. no overtime etc) really more than $100k?

Overtime give me a break! In case you've been asleep, the Aussie car industry is in a coma and on life support i.e. they're not selling stuff they make. So why the heck would there be any overtime requirement unless of course there is a deliberate go slow and work to rule going on with the work force. The sooner it is restructured and the unionists thrown out the better, my wallet needs to keep my family clothed and feed and not some overpaid menial worker o. An outrageous wage. I've already chosen to NOT buy GM so why do I still have to pay?

[Bowser22]

Originally Posted by cheap

That the whole point of the argument, they should be paid commensurate to their duties, and their duties are not worthy of a +$100K wage

If you like paying for other people to be on over inflated wages go right ahead and keep the status quo. I suppose you also like paying government workers high wages for sitting on their butts pushing paper work around and making sure the public complies with their latest hair brain scheme. So let me tell you having been a private consultant to government, that is exactly what happens, they do have to justify their positions somehow.

And the cost of keeping these workers turning nuts, bolt, installing wiring and a raft of other menial duties is +$100K wages, which it seems is funded mostly by the taxpayer.

This once great country needs to realign itself with reality, we do need a car industry but it doesn't need +$100K workers doing what a robot can do...

Wow. You really have your FACTS wrong don't you. You'd be lucky to find more than a dozen REAL workers that earn more than $70k p/a, you have picked up some of the inaccuracies that are thrown around by those who don't know the facts.

[imugli]

Bit of a catch 22 really...

Higher wages (legislated minimum wages) contribute to inflation because people have more money to spend which causes more demand for things. More demand for things causes the prices to rise. Rising prices cause the need for wages to increase because people ark up that they can no longer afford what they used to, unions strike, companies & governments give in and on and on we go. Part of the reason US prices for things are so low is because a) there's no minimum wage, so people literally cannot afford to pay exorbitant prices for things and b) economies of scale. They 300million+ people to sell to.

Strip the minimum wage here and watch the price of things plummet because people would no longer be able to afford even the basics at current prices. (I'm not advocating it, just using it as an example).

That's VERY simplistic and there are A LOT more contributing factors, but you get the idea. Businesses will charge what they think people can afford.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by velvet

I pay my employees above award rates, stated below plus work cover, super and holidays. I'd assume factory workers are on similar money but add all the "benefits" they receive (52 weeks redundancy for a start) and it costs a considerable amount on top of that.
.
BUILDING TRADESPERSON
HOURLY, **CASUAL 20% Loading



Registered Plumber
$22.76 $27.31
Plumber/Gasfitter
$22.28 **$26.74
Bricklayer
$22.05 **$26.46
Plasterer
$22.13 **$26.56
Carpenter / Joiner
$22.25 **$26.70
Plasterer
$21.57 **$25.88
Wall & Floor Tiler
$21.57 **$25.88
Bricklayer
$21.49 **$25.79
Roof Tile Fixer
$21.36 **$25.63
Painter
$21.15 **$25.40

so you happy for holden worker to be on $13.00 ph
$25 an hrs is a $1000 pw and they are over paid 50~75 %%

the cost of living is at $19 ph @38 hrs week..

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Bowser22

Wow. You really have your FACTS wrong don't you. You'd be lucky to find more than a dozen REAL workers that earn more than $70k p/a, you have picked up some of the inaccuracies that are thrown around by those who don't know the facts.

Ok, so what are the correct facts and supply references...

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Economy is a funny, frail thing. Bit like the butterfly effect...

One thing to say lower taxes, everything will be fine, but funding needs to come from somewhere...

Spend less, stop subsidizing programs that can be done by free market capitalism (such as paying private companies in hopes that something good will one day become of it). It makes the playing field uneven. Why would anyone want to start a company or invest when the govt is giving handouts to a competitor? So level the playing field (by actually making it level, not by giving advantages to some and disadvantages to others), lower the cost of doing business. The govt should release more land to lower the price (not artificially keep it high to satisfy investors) and stop taxing success. Offer a lower flat tax to make people want to succeed.

So what should the government focus on? Services that cannot be done competitively by the free market. You can't have competing road infrastructure in the private market. You can't have five freeways next to each other and take the one offering the lowest rate. So the government has to pay to build one road network. But you can have multiple private road construction contractors competing to win a bid from the government (that increases efficiency), as long as the politicians and winning suppliers are scrutinized to determine any conflicts of interest. If they stop wasting money, and focus on the few things that need federal funding, you don't need to keep taxes so high. Also, more money would be coming in from more companies and people working contributing to the tax revenue. Libertarians understand this concept very well.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by cheap

Overtime give me a break! In case you've been asleep, the Aussie car industry is in a coma and on life support i.e. they're not selling stuff they make. So why the heck would there be any overtime requirement unless of course there is a deliberate go slow and work to rule going on with the work force. The sooner it is restructured and the unionists thrown out the better, my wallet needs to keep my family clothed and feed and not some overpaid menial worker o. An outrageous wage. I've already chosen to NOT buy GM so why do I still have to pay?

Settle petal - was just trying to confirm that when you say the Holden line workers are making more than $100k per year that you are referring to normal day shift with no overtime or shift penalties...cause that sounds like BS to me

[burnz]

In the past, Holden has misinformed us on its workers’ salaries, claiming the average worker earns $55,000....

While the Modern Award base salaries for vehicle builders are in the modest $37,000-$42,000 range, the base rates in Holden’s agreement are in the $60,000-$80,000 range. Add on to this loadings and penalties and I am comfortable betting that if Holden was compelled by government, as it should be, to produce the group certificates of workers, earnings would show in the $100,000 to $150,000 range.

the gov already knows what the worker earns..

100~150k what a load.

[burnz]

just want to clear things up (more so that clown BOLT)

around 2300 workers.

$23.12 ph (factory floor assembly)
$90k pa salary (managerial) approx 75 employees.
160k pa salary ("specialist" G code, M code, mechanical engineer, architectural clay modelists) 7 employees.

[jpd80]

Take Toyota's case wher they have to drop $3,800/car in costs.
You would have to drop everyone's wages to Thailand's $9/day to match the alternative plant.

Ain't gonna happen.
Therefore in my opinion, there is nothing GM could do to make local production more profitable than importing vehicles.

What makes Commodore worthwhile is sales of value added versions, the +$40,000 variants as opposed to Omega/SV6.

[RANGEREST]

Nowhere did I say anyone should be on $13 per hr

Originally Posted by burnz

just want to clear things up (more so that clown BOLT)

around 2300 workers.

$23.12 ph (factory floor assembly)
$90k pa salary (managerial) approx 75 employees.
160k pa salary ("specialist" G code, M code, mechanical engineer, architectural clay modelists) 7 employees.

If this is correct, this thread has just become irrelevant.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by cheap

Overtime give me a break! In case you've been asleep, the Aussie car industry is in a coma and on life support i.e. they're not selling stuff they make. So why the heck would there be any overtime requirement unless of course there is a deliberate go slow and work to rule going on with the work force. The sooner it is restructured and the unionists thrown out the better, my wallet needs to keep my family clothed and feed and not some overpaid menial worker o. An outrageous wage. I've already chosen to NOT buy GM so why do I still have to pay?

Employees at GMH Elizabeth are working and receiving overtime.

I have a mate who has received overtime in recent weeks.

[pauljh74]

If your workplace suddenly chopped your pay rate significantly, what would you do? You'd look for another job. The best workers will snap something up at a good rate. The good workers would have some success and the lowest performing employees would realise they're still on a good thing and mostly stay put. Cut wages, lose your best staff.

A pay freeze at a previous employer was a significant factor in an exodus of staff.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

If your workplace suddenly chopped your pay rate significantly, what would you do? You'd look for another job. The best workers will snap something up at a good rate. The good workers would have some success and the lowest performing employees would realise they're still on a good thing and mostly stay put. Cut wages, lose your best staff.

A pay freeze at a previous employer was a significant factor in an exodus of staff.

Not everyone follows that model.... there is more to a job than financial satisfaction.