Reminder...new pushbike rules from April 7th

[2011G6E]

http://qld.gov.au/transport/news/fea...les/index.html

Just a reminder about the ludicrous new laws which are coming in here in Queensland on April the 7th, regarding how far away YOu have to stay from pushbikes...who should actually be the ones being told "Make sure you stay meter away from traffic".

$330 fine, 3 points, cyclists allowed to take video or photos of you and get you into trouble for an alleged offence. Also the little gem that now, somehow, it is magically safe to overtake on double white lines to go around a pushbike.

Now, drivers have had it drummed into them for decades that it is absolutely not on, is very unsafe, is dangerous, to overtake on double white lines...a section of road that we have always been told is a dangerous section.

Motorists will be allowed to cross centre lines, including double unbroken centre lines, straddle lane-lines or drive on painted islands to pass cyclists provided the driver has a clear view of any approaching traffic and it is safe to do so.

Any guesses how many accidents this will cause? You had just better damn well hope that the guy coming the other way has judged distances properly...


This is going to lead to massive traffic issues...what do you do on a lot of normal narrow city and town roads, where you simply cannot overtake with that much distance? Cyclists are already taking to heart the stupid brainless information release from the police up here who told them "You are entitled to as much of the lane as you wish". Do we all just sit behind a pig headed cyclists who decides to sit in the middle of the lane at 15kph until he decides to get out of our way?
I've actually seen cyclists on the net in readers comments and Facebook saying that cyclists should now "claim the lane" and ride where they like. No, you doofus...that's what motorcyclists are recommended to do, not a pushbike travelling at a tenth the speed of the traffic around them.

I notice on that page at the Transport Department that amongst the things cyclists are expected to do, nowhere do we see the helpful suggestion that pushbikes can stop and maneuver far quicker than cars in heavy traffic, so make sure you keep out of the damn way.

So fire up your dash cams, or buy 'em if you haven't got one, and make sure you hold up as much traffic as you can if some cyclist won't move over...remember, they have all the rights now...

Still...coulda been worse...the parliamentary committee who came up with this brain dead idea suggested the fine for coming within a meter of a cyclist be set at $4300!!!

I'd still prefer it be worded like the law we saw in Nevada which said to keep "three feet clearance WHERE POSSIBLE"...this accepted the reality that cars often have more to do than toddle along behind a pushbike who decides to "claim the lane".

[csv8]

This is absolutely ridiculous !!! QGov pandering to the minority..about time the lycra brigade started paying rego and contributing to the cost of cycleways etc..Motorists pay rego for roads..so should they ...I am not against cyclists..but lets have a level playing field. How are insurance companies going to pay out , on a claim ?? " I crossed the double white lines to avoid a cyclist" how can you prove a cyclist was there ????????? Lawyers are ordering BMW's now !!!!

[mechanic]

Just one more nail in the coffin for drivers.
Notice how the gubmnt will profit from idiots and penalise lawabiding citizens AGAIN.
The gun laws set this precedent, make a law affecting the vast majority of people and then set a fine any normal lawabiding citizen to pay, plus the GST gouge as well.
Next, I would think is a law to restrict the speed of motor vehicles to not exceed that of cyclists, accompanied by a $500 fine and crushing of motor vehicle [ at owners expense ].

Surely then we can make the world a lot safer by making all traffic travel at least 100 meters behind the old lady driving her little electric buggy with the orange flag.
Any one caught breaking this law to pay at least $500 and 6 months jail time.

Rant over.

[2011G6E]

The most worrying bit, as I said, is that you are now going to have to trust that the people coming the other way in a double or single white line area (inside or out of town), who is afraid of a $330 fine and three points, is able to judge accurately at speed one to one and a half meters, probably coming well out onto your side of the road.
Yes yes, I know the regulations now say "where you have a clear view of oncoming traffic"...but in a lot of areas, the whole idea of double lines is to stop you overtaking in an area where you can't see clearly what is coming the other way.

Yep...lawyers will be rubbing thier hands together, and courts had better be ready for the biggest onslaught of "I refuse to pay this BS fine" cases ever seen. Even my dear sainted little 86 year old mother (who usually strongly supports every law and order thing the government does unquestioningly) said, when we told her to make sure she knows about these new rules, "What a load of rubbish! Why the hell can't they stay out of the damn road of cars and ride over to the side of the road where they belong??".

Here's another news item about it:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...se-to-cyclists

And I say again...to remind you of the staggeringly huge mental giants we are dealing with on these committees, look at what they originally suggested the fines should be...

The $330 fine was much less than the $4400 fine proposed by a parliamentary committee last year.

Wow. Just...wow.

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm thinking wouldn't it be better to have cyclists ride on the opposite side of the road, so they can clearly see you coming, you'd both be facing each other, rather you approaching them from behind and them having no clue.

Maybe more tax payer money to make tracks for them so they can stay off busy roads, or even rural ones, I've seen a few cyclists trying to go up/down Mt Macedon here in Victoria, the road is really narrow and its bordered by trees, very dangerous spot to ride on the road.

With the argument about cyclists paying rego to use the roads, remember 90% of them would have cars they wouldn't be using when they're riding their bike, so i guess sometimes they're paying for something they aren't using when they ride their bikes.

Then again at one stage I had 4 registered cars and its not like I could drive them all at once.

[DBourne]

Oh god here we go.

Taking bets on how long it takes before the uneducated bogans crow on about rego, number plates, the fact that EVERY SINGLE CYCLIST EVER runs red lights etc etc etc.

Of course, I could just say, how about we show each other common courtesy (goes both ways).. but naa, that won't go down well..

[mcnews]

Just everyone be thoughtful and courteous to each other on the roads and there will be no problems. It's not that hard. The attitudes shown here are pretty pathetic. Take a good look at yourself and your attitude displayed here before criticising others. Yes there are total di##wad cyclists but there are also plenty in every subset of society including fordforums members it seems.

[Polyal]

Having moved to QLD recently it is unreal that they introduce this and there is not a cycle lane in sight on any major road. Its crazy and during peak hour causes havoc.

[XBROO]

This is a stupid law they should be made to use bike ways if one is provided. But to let them be able to just ride in the middle of the road and hold traffic up is ridiculous. This is going to separate cyclist and motorist even more and can see a lot more road rage happen because of this. I always allow distance from a cyclist as much as possible, but 1.5 metres is stupid, really they shouldn't be on a road that's posted higher then 60.

[DBourne]

It is silly to bring in a hard and fast distance rule, it's unrealistic.

Unless they re-do all roads to make it feasible of course..

Just give each other respect and time and everyone wins.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

Oh god here we go.

Taking bets on how long it takes before the uneducated bogans crow on about rego, number plates, the fact that EVERY SINGLE CYCLIST EVER runs red lights etc etc etc.

Of course, I could just say, how about we show each other common courtesy (goes both ways).. but naa, that won't go down well..

Mate totally agree but they make these stupid laws because the is no common courtesy or sense anymore. To many idiots that are just arrogant pieces of **** and only think of themselves.

[AlanD]

Interesting for Queensland - I wonder how long for Victoria - not long I suspect, but given the cranial capacity of our elected representatives (what does this say about the collective capabilities of Australian voters???) I suspect the business of it being legal to stray across double white lines will get omitted.

Those who live in outer eastern Melbourne will probably be familiar with Mountain Highway - the route dejour of those attempting to get fit.

It is a narrow two lane road with a considerable gradient for most of its length from the Basin (yes that's a suburb) to Sassafras (This too) and for a goodly part of its length has double white lines - with good reason.

And if I'm on that road I'm not going to pull across the double lines to pass a cyclist because I have been close to being side swiped by driver's doing just that travelling in the opposite direction who have done so. Frequently I know they have seen me because I have made eye contact with the driver before they passed the cyclist. Slowing to the cyclist's speed for a little while isn't going to kill you - it may in fact do the opposite. Fortunately I now don't get to use that road very frequently, but if I do then even if the law allows me to move over the double lines I will not do it - it is dangerous and allowing for it to happen is a as stupid as the American non universal rule allowing a right turn against a red light. If they want that to happen then a blinking right turn arrow in amber is what is needed when the through light is red.

The problem with Mountain Highway, when ascending, is that as you get closer to the top the mamils an mawils are straining every sinew to stay upright and maintain forward momentum. In this situation your 1 metre of clearance will quickly become 50 cm or less as the cyclist attempts to maintain balance and there ain't anything you can do to prevent this.

Anyway if you are on that road and see either of the cars in the sig, be prepared - I'm going to slow until it is safe to pass them pesky bike riders in front of me - it might make you late for work (leave earlier) or getting home (probably not a major worry) and I will not have been the cause of damage to people or property.

But I agree with the idiocy of attempting to make laws to safeguard those who demonstrate complete oblivion about their own safety and it p*sses me off when law makers attempt to do so.
Cheers

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Just everyone be thoughtful and courteous to each other on the roads and there will be no problems. It's not that hard. The attitudes shown here are pretty pathetic. Take a good look at yourself and your attitude displayed here before criticising others. Yes there are total di##wad cyclists but there are also plenty in every subset of society including fordforums members it seems.

here, here!!

try taking taking a phone call, a family member cyclist has been hit by a dickwad in a car

give em some room, besides being courteous, its not that ******* hard

[mechanic]

It's just more control, more regulation, more paperwork, more resources and more receipts for state and federal gov..
More court time tied up, more court costs to be collected.
Queensland had to set up a brand new bureaucracy called the Weapons Licensing Department just to handle the new cash cow called the Firearms Licence. [ Now costing about 3 times what it started out at ].
Surely we can now anticipate a new department to do with cyclists claiming drivers have driven too close. According to the new law their videos are enough to get us convicted, that will necessitate extra specialists to analyse, formulate and present their footage to the authorities.

No wonder our premier is able to get a $70,000/year pay rise, he's collecting money from us at an ever increasing rate.

[2011G6E]

Still kind of confused as to why motorcyclists (who at least keep up with traffic flow) are repeatedly told "You're vulnerable, you're at significantly higher risk in an accident with a car, make sure you keep your eye out for other vehicles who may not have seen you and keep clear of them, make sure you keep yourself in a visible position on the lane to cars can see you and react appropriately", when pushbikes are told "Hey...do what you like...use as much of the lane as you wish...we'll heavily fine the cars if they get too close to you, so all responsibility is out of your hands now...enjoy dominating the roads you aren't paying for and dictating road speed and traffic flow to those who are!"

What's wrong with having an advertising campaign facing reality? One that says "Hey pushbike riders...you're vulnerable, you're possibly riding somewhere you really shouldn't be in heavy fast moving traffic...so make sure you're visible, position yourself to keep well out of the way of cars, give them at least a meter clearance, because they can't move around or stop as quickly as you can in traffic".

This law has just basically sent a message that everyone else but cyclists is now responsible for cyclists safety. Well done...

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

here, here!!

try taking taking a phone call, a family member cyclist has been hit by a dickwad in a car

give em some room, besides being courteous, its not that ******* hard

Well I dont know what its like in your neck of the woods, but we drive around Brisbane CBD, live about 6kms out, and Im telling you know the planning in this town is a shocker.

If they had bike lanes then there would be 0 problem, but they dont, any! So imagine the issue we have now were motorists are paranoid about being stung for probably being just within that zone. There is no room to move, traffic all over the joint and there have been plenty of times when whole streets back up because cyclists cant move and motorists cant move.

All the while I look out my office window and the footpaths are 3m's+ wide on each side....

There are DH's on both side of the fence BTW.

[flooded one]

I think I may need to get a dash cam now to defend myself against claims

[FGX-351]

The only way to make everyone happy is for the Government to start building purpose built velodromes.
There's clearly a market for it.

One thing I've noticed is a lot of cyclists tend to not look around or check out their surroundings, in the interest of preventing accidents maybe rear view mirrors should be made compulsory?

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Still kind of confused as to why motorcyclists (who at least keep up with traffic flow) are repeatedly told "You're vulnerable, you're at significantly higher risk in an accident with a car, make sure you keep your eye out for other vehicles who may not have seen you and keep clear of them, make sure you keep yourself in a visible position on the lane to cars can see you and react appropriately", when pushbikes are told "Hey...do what you like...use as much of the lane as you wish...we'll heavily fine the cars if they get too close to you, so all responsibility is out of your hands now...enjoy dominating the roads you aren't paying for and dictating road speed and traffic flow to those who are!"

What's wrong with having an advertising campaign facing reality? One that says "Hey pushbike riders...you're vulnerable, you're possibly riding somewhere you really shouldn't be in heavy fast moving traffic...so make sure you're visible, position yourself to keep well out of the way of cars, give them at least a meter clearance, because they can't move around or stop as quickly as you can in traffic".

This law has just basically sent a message that everyone else but cyclists is now responsible for cyclists safety. Well done...

Because motorcyclists and car enthusiasts are seen as hoons in this state. when was the last time you heard of a "hoon" cyclists. yes I am in favour of peoples safety but these laws are just pathetic!! How about fine the cyclists that ride 3 or more abreast every morning!! or fine the idiots that deliberately target cyclists with there cars!! this is just gunna cause petty little complaints that's going to have everyone on a push bike with a crash cam claiming this bloke near hit me. for a law to work its got to work both ways!! how about $330 fine and loss of push bike for 3 weeks for riding three or more abreast??? that would be a start in evening things up for both sides

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

The only way to make everyone happy is for the Government to start building purpose built velodromes.
There's clearly a market for it.

What..no way.

If they want to ride to work thats ok..there just needs to be allocated bike lines, its easy. Foresight is something that QLD town planners seem to lack.

[FORD5]

If cyclists want to use the road, they should have to PAY to use it.
You know, like motorists have to...

[DBourne]

The Show Stoppa I can tell you, when I'm on the bike and want to move, turn etc, I DEFINITELY check what's around me. Basically because I don't really want to become a hood orniment!

Ford5, I think you'll find we do mate. I pay taxes which pay for roads..

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by Polyal

What..no way.

If they want to ride to work thats ok..there just needs to be allocated bike lines, its easy. Foresight is something that QLD town planners seem to lack.

I just assumed most did it for training purposes.
Then the issue with that is if the roads need to be modified then there may need to be a small tax introduced to cyclists to help pay for it.
I wouldn't call it rego just a contribution.

[DBourne]

I ride to work during daylight savings time, outside of that I don't think it's worth the risk of not being seen.

I'd happily pay some rego fees if that is what would stop people from getting all hot under the collar.. Though I get the feeling it wouldn't matter one bit. Inconsiderate people will remain inconsiderate people. That statement goes both ways..

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

The Show Stoppa I can tell you, when I'm on the bike and want to move, turn etc, I DEFINITELY check what's around me. Basically because I don't really want to become a hood orniment!

Ford5, I think you'll find we do mate. I pay taxes which pay for roads..

Not meaning to aim that at you personally, but if we're looking at things for safety we need to look at all options.

[jpblue1000]

It must be so sad living as some of you!

If you demand cyclists pay registration ask yourselves, If you have kids, what the annual bill might be to register their bicycles. Why would you ask less than a cars registration, they use a whole lane so should pay for it?
Then how about footpaths, the public purse pays for those too, how about we tax shoes as anyone who walks anywhere should be asked to pay for the footpaths, and you are all walkers first drivers second so youll be paying that tax too.
I am a walker first, cyclist second and driver third, The only time in 40 years of cycling I have nearly been hurt is when a driver wants my lane while Im still in it and its quite common...Yet as a driver I have never knocked a cyclist or pedestrian off, or been severely put out by waiting just a second or two to pass safely. I have always given a meter or more and will hold up traffic behind to ensure the rider, who could be you, your wife or child is safe before I pass and I'm never late to meetings either.
It's just not an issue to have you knickers knotted about.

JP

[mechanic]

Assuming I move over to give a meter of room and the cyclist has his GoPro and measures the distance as 80cm and I finish up in court contesting the fine.
How is it determined that there wasn't a meter? In the event of an accident will my CTP wipe me because a non CTP paying cyclist has judged me to be negligent?
What if I allow the meter and the cyclist wobbles 20 cm towards me causing me to swerve to give the meter clearance? Do I then pay for his poor judgement?
Am I supposed to ride the bike and drive the car or will the cyclist take responsibility for riding the bike and doing his [ or her ] part in keeping a meter clear?

[strik9]

think its been said before, a cyclist post on a car forum is never going to end well........

[2011G6E]

Of course it never ends well...especially when a government officially brings in a law which puts all power in traffic into the hands of people who shouldn't even be anywhere near traffic in the first place, and should be looking after themselves by keeping well to the left away from cars. Couple this with staggeringly strong penalties and giving cyclists the right to use film or photos to get a charge against you, and it naturally breeds more than a little anger and has to be discussed and people warned about these laws and the potential outcome of them for drivers.
Not to even mention the simply huge change to normal road rules from a decades-old standing where we have taught people to never, ever cross double white lines to overtake, to a situation where "well now it's OK", and the anger is well warranted.

Originally Posted by mechanic

Assuming I move over to give a meter of room and the cyclist has his GoPro and measures the distance as 80cm and I finish up in court contesting the fine.
How is it determined that there wasn't a meter? In the event of an accident will my CTP wipe me because a non CTP paying cyclist has judged me to be negligent?
What if I allow the meter and the cyclist wobbles 20 cm towards me causing me to swerve to give the meter clearance? Do I then pay for his poor judgement?
Am I supposed to ride the bike and drive the car or will the cyclist take responsibility for riding the bike and doing his [ or her ] part in keeping a meter clear?

All very very good questions that people have been putting forward in "readers comments" and on Facebook sites like the Transport Department and police sites. Pretty damn hard to get a straight answer though. The only "answer" seems to usually be "Keep a meter away and you'll be OK". Which, to be blunt, is no damn answer at all...

This is going to be such a damn legal nightmare over the next two years of the "trial" (and if it's a "trial period", then why fine people during the "trial period" instead of just warning them as they normally do when radical new traffic laws are introduced?), and it will slow down traffic markedly in city and town areas, as well as on the highway.
If I come across a cyclist or cyclists riding on the actual lane instead of off to the side, I for one will happily toddle along at 20kph and hold up a kilometre of traffic behind me in the town area unless the pushbike moves over and is staying a meter away from me. It shouldn't be up to me to cross single or double lines and endanger myself when he or she can move so damn easily look after their own safety a little tiny teensy wee bit and move well away from the line of traffic.

[XBv8mmm!]

You should try living in the peoples republic of Canberra and the cyclementilists that we have here.

Then you would have something to complain about.