Cut down tree's to save lives

[BENT_8]

A suggestion has been made by the MAC to cut down dangerous trees along roadsides in SA to reduce fatalities.
I remember posing this same question when those 6 youngsters in the XR8? ploughed into that tree in Victoria a number of years ago.

Thoughts.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1227245474651

[Franco Cozzo]

I like the environment like the greenies but I agree, whats the point in having big trees on the side of roads? It creates unnecessary hazards.

Relocate wildlife that might live in those trees, cut the trees down, plant 4 more somewhere else for every one you cut down on the side of the road.

[mac_man_luke]

Yep i agree, some roads have huge trees touching the shoulder - not much room for error!

and certainly replant further back or in alternate locations.

Also gives better visibility animals etc jumping out at you.

[Polyal]

Certainly there are some cases where they could be removed. What is the proposed distance though?

You come off at 100k's and your going to need a decent run off area? When do you stop cutting?

[jpblue1000]

leave the trees alone, and stop hitting them with cars problem solved.
JP

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

leave the trees alone, and stop hitting them with cars problem solved.
JP

The problem comes from when you have humans involved.

[Boza]

I agree there is always heaps of people dying or loosing limbs from hitting trees especially those huge ones on the sides of country roads

[XR Martin]

Drive to the conditions and dont fall asleep.

Typical people expect the environment to adapt to them and not the other way round.

[BENT_8]

Personally I have lost 6 friends as a result of striking large tree's within 10m of the roadside.
In one accident my friend fell asleep on his way home in a 100k zone, he was driving an EF XR8.
If he had gone a few meters either side of the tree he would have survived, but he was unlucky and hit a huge palm tree right between the A and C pillars.

In another crash drink driving and attitude played a major factor, but when it all went wrong the tree they hit didn't forgive and bent the 77 LTD into a boomerang that wouldn't fit on a car trailer, lost 2 mates in that one, neither of them behind the wheel.

The worst by far was a mate who swerved to avoid a car at a cross roads who came out of nowhere. My mate ploughed head on into a large Gum stump and flipped his XF killing him and his brother in law. the saddest part was his wife and sister of passenger discovered the wreck the next morning.

It happens all to often in country settings where the speed limits, distances and obstructions all come together to create the perfect recipe fro disaster.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Drive to the conditions and dont fall asleep.

Typical people expect the environment to adapt to them and not the other way round.

But what's wrong with removing dangerous objects and replacing them with smaller shrubs etc.

Its ok to say adapt to the conditions, but what about the poor volunteer CFS/SES in rural settings that have to scrape the poor bugger who doesn't adapt off the big, old, almost dead, gum tree.

[XR Martin]

Would you rather people drift into a tree or drift into oncoming traffic?

[Polyal]

Most certainly there are cases all over the country where trees should be removed. Actually you wonder how the road was laid through them.

While Im sorry for your loss BENT8 I think we all have a story and at the end of the day there were other factors that played a role moreso than the trees themselves.

I agree in principle, really all roads should not have anything like a large tree say 5 meters from the edge..but you have to draw the line somewhere.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Would you rather people drift into a tree or drift into oncoming traffic?

Oncoming traffic because the car on the other side of the road has a crumple zone, a tree doesn't flex when you smash into it.

[XR Martin]

I like the examples they give...

A year of tragic deaths

1 ■ A CONGOLESE migrant couple and their baby died on February 15 after striking a tree 30km west of Casterton on the Casterton-Penola Rd.

2 ■ ON Piggott Range Rd, in Clarendon, a Hackham West man, 34, died after his car collided with a 4WD and then hit a tree on January 29.

3 ■ IN September 2014, 19-year-old Nicki Allwright swerved to miss a duck on the road and hit a tree at Yattalunga, near One Tree Hill, on One Tree Hill Rd.

4 ■ ON October 15, 2014, a woman died after her car hit a tree on the side of Hyde Rd, 5km west of North Shields.

5 ■ AN 83-year-old woman was killed when the vehicle she was travelling in struck a tree on Battunga Rd at Echunga, on July 29, 2014.

6 ■ ON March 2, 2014, a man died after his car ploughed into five pedestrians and hit a tree at North Plympton.

7 ■ A TREE on Meechi Rd, Langhorne Creek, caused the death of Jackson Rohde, 21, on 2 March, 2014.

8 ■ ADAM Dixon, 18, died when the car he was travelling in slid off Cape Willoughby Rd on Kangaroo Island and hit a tree, on January 18, 2014.

First of all, thats 13 months not a 'year'

1: Happened in Victoria - not technically relevant to trees in SA.

2: His car hit an oncoming car first.

3: Swerving to miss a duck? There should be better education regarding that you never swerve for wildlife

6: This happened in suburbia, not on a highway.

7: He was driving far in excess of the speed limit

[AUwindsor]

Trees and cars don't go well together. The tree always wins

[BENT_8]

Picture this...

Your driving along a country road, its a fine sunny day. The posted limit is 100k/hr and your cruise control is set.
In the back seat are your kids, busy reading a book, in the passenger seat, your partner is getting a few winks before you reach your destination.

Ahead you see an oncoming car, nothing out of the ordinary.
All of a sudden some form of native wildlife appears on the road in front of the oncoming car.
You cant control their actions and so they swerve into your lane as a reaction.
To avoid a head on you swerve too, lose control of the car on the dirty shoulder and slide passenger side first into a large gum tree.
The result is catastrophic for car and occupant and in a split second your world is torn apart.

Who do you blame, the animal, the other driver for becoming startled or you for not correcting your slide.
You cant stop the animal from doing erratic things on the road, they don't know any different.
You could blame the other driver, but who hasn't been startled by an unexpected object appearing on the road.
Or you could blame yourself for not steering your car away as you did in the controlled conditions of an advanced driver training course you have completed.

All of these things contributed to the resulting accident, but only one thing took the lives of your partner and child, the tree you hit 3 meters off the road.

Its ok to say drive to the conditions, but what if you are and the whole thing comes about as a result of no fault of your own.

[poppa smurf]

Picture this.......Dead straight road, clear, blue, sunny day.......no obstacles within miles.

Oncoming vehicle is on the wrong side of the road killing both occupants.......happened here just recently.

Folks are going to die on our roads regardless of what is, or isn't, in their path, single vehicle rollovers are common on straight stretches of perfectly good highway with no vegetation.

Take the roadside obstacles away and people will still die, there will just be less trees.

Drive to the conditions, just because the road is posted at 100kph doesn't mean you should be driving at that speed.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

I like the examples they give...




First of all, thats 13 months not a 'year'

1: Happened in Victoria - not technically relevant to trees in SA.

2: His car hit an oncoming car first.

3: Swerving to miss a duck? There should be better education regarding that you never swerve for wildlife

6: This happened in suburbia, not on a highway.

7: He was driving far in excess of the speed limit

1: They were on their way home to Mt Gambier.

2: What caused the fatal injuries.

3: What if it was a Horse or cow, care to show us what would happen if you didn't swerve.

6: No one said it was just highways, its just that the speeds increase in rural areas.

7: Speed doesn't kill, the sudden stop gets you. at least that's the line we wheel out when a speed camera thread pops up.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

Picture this.......Dead straight road, clear, blue, sunny day.......no obstacles within miles.

Oncoming vehicle is on the wrong side of the road killing both occupants.......happened here just recently.

Folks are going to die on our roads regardless of what is, or isn't, in their path, single vehicle rollovers are common on straight stretches of perfectly good highway with no vegetation.

Take the roadside obstacles away and people will still die, there will just be less trees.

Drive to the conditions, just because the road is posted at 100kph doesn't mean you should be driving at that speed.

So what your saying is we should all be able to drink drive whilst speeding because the resulting accidents happen anyway and on rare occasions so its ok.

The idea is to remove the likelihood of greater carnage than is already present.

[Feathers]

Even if the tree wasn't there, there's still the possibility that they hit a rock or undulation in the ground and the car rolls. Outcome is still likely to be very much the same.

We can't keep changing the environment to suit us. People will always find new and interesting ways to remove themselves from the gene pool - unintentionally or otherwise.
When your time is up, it's up.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

3: What if it was a Horse or cow, care to show us what would happen if you didn't swerve.

Macedon Ranges police and council crack down on poor vehicle, fence maintenance



POLICE and Macedon Ranges Council are cracking down on reckless drivers and irresponsible farmers after a man cheated death when his car hit a bull.

Sen-Constable Rob Fisher from Romsey police said the man was lucky to escape after hitting the animal on Melbourne-Lancefield Rd at Bolinda on February 14 at 11.30pm.

The driver escaped the incident with concussion.

The 700kg bull was killed instantly before the vehicle spun into a tree.

While this accident could not be avoided, Sen-*Constable Fisher said lax *vehicle maintenance, including dozens of vehicles not having two functioning headlights, was creating sudden and unnecessary driving risks.

“We are seeing regular *incidents of speeding on Melbourne-Lancefield and Woodend-Romsey roads in particular, while people are not slowing down to conditions like when there are kangaroos out or fog,” he said.

The quality of vehicle servicing was also poor, with police revealing as many as one vehicle in 10 was missing a headlight.

Sen-Constable Fisher said a blitz on vehicle road*worthiness could be *expected if behaviour did not improve.

Meanwhile, Romsey police have contacted Macedon Ranges Council about wandering livestock after numerous reports of horses, cows and sheep on local roads.

“We are getting reports of horses and cows consistently, while kangaroos are almost at plague proportions around Melbourne-Lancefield Rd and we believe many fences are in poor condition,” he said.

Council’s local laws co-*ordinator Rob Muscat confirmed the council had been contacted and would prosecute landowners where livestock was consistently wandering from properties on to the road.

The council recently took a landowner in the Macedon Ranges to Kyneton Magistrates’ Court over a series of reports concerning wandering sheep, while last year 439 calls were received by council rangers over stray livestock.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/n...-1227241526057

I narrowly avoided taking out two horses and their owners (also probably myself) coming around the bottom of Mt Macedon from Woodend, I crested a hill at 100km/h which is the speed limit and there were two people riding horses in the middle of the lane just over the top of the hill who I couldn't see until I came over, narrowly avoided them by going onto the other side of the road.

I've come across people riding horses on local roads a few times now and if its not people riding horses its cows and sheep on the side of the road and one time a horse with no rider who broke free at night which we nearly took out.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So what your saying is we should all be able to drink drive whilst speeding because the resulting accidents happen anyway and on rare occasions so its ok.

The idea is to remove the likelihood of greater carnage than is already present.

Well, your imagination is working overtime today, show me where I said that?

Tree's don't kill people, people, and their bad behaviour's, kill people.

Sleep depravation, inattention, speed, stupidity, all causes.

I'll explain it for you so you don't get confused again....cut down as many trees as you like, the deaths on our roads will continue.

I've attended many accidents, a lot of which I simply shake my head at the silliness of the drivers......wasn't necessary to die that day, just a bad mistake at the wrong time.

That's all it takes, one moment of inattention, one bad judgement call, one fool coming from the other direction........Life is gone.

cut the trees down, wrap them in cotton wool, they will still do stupid things, or make one bad decision.

[Vesper Martini]

I know of a few country Roads in Victoria where there's the odd tree close to the edge, i.e. on the shoulder, and they probably need to go
But if you're ending up more than 3 Meters off the road, then I have to say there are other factors involved.
I had a friend years ago that when through a while paddock before going head first into a tree,
Chopping down trees to save lives seems like more of a Political move, than a practical one

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

Well, your imagination is working overtime today, show me where I said that?

Tree's don't kill people, people, and their bad behaviour's, kill people.

Sleep depravation, inattention, speed, stupidity, all causes.

I'll explain it for you so you don't get confused again....cut down as many trees as you like, the deaths on our roads will continue.

I've attended many accidents, a lot of which I simply shake my head at the silliness of the drivers......wasn't necessary to die that day, just a bad mistake at the wrong time.

That's all it takes, one moment of inattention, one bad judgement call, one fool coming from the other direction........Life is gone.

cut the trees down, wrap them in cotton wool, they will still do stupid things, or make one bad decision.

People will still die on the roads, but if you can make it one less its still a victory and one less dead person isn't it?

Whats a human life worth in regards to cost of removing some trees on the side of particular roads?

Even then its still a vote winner, government can act like they've done something towards reducing the road toll, the greenies can be happy because they've planted 4x more trees than they removed elsewhere and its created a little bit of extra work for people.

[XR Martin]

Alot of trees there act as wind breaks. You know what can happen to properties when there isnt wind breaks? Ever heard of the Dust Bowl disaster? Afterwhich they planted millions of trees between properies and along roads to prevent it happening again.

[sneaky]

not exactly the same issue as trees on highways, but close - i used to get people complaining about the power poles on the side of the roads (worked on poles in sydney's north). i used to ask if they would prefer it if the cars hit the poles, their fences or perhaps their loungerooms? people are going to run off roads for numerous reasons and most likely stop when they hit something harder than the car.

having said that, i have never been affected by a loved one crashing into a pole/tree so my views could change one day

[Polyal]

Small trees would work as car brakes too?

[Bill M]

More of an issue is power poles that are in some cases 100 mm from the road side (Melbourne)

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

People will still die on the roads, but if you can make it one less its still a victory and one less dead person isn't it?

Whats a human life worth in regards to cost of removing some trees on the side of particular roads?

Even then its still a vote winner, government can act like they've done something towards reducing the road toll, the greenies can be happy because they've planted 4x more trees than they removed elsewhere and its created a little bit of extra work for people.

"some tree's"......how many is "some".......how far back do you go?, how far apart do you go......what are the ratio of tree's that cause deaths and tree's that don't.

do we have "black area" trees as in the Adelaide hills that take out motorcyclists every year, many of these trees are a 100 yards off the road.......do we take out all of the trees within 100 yards of the road?

I personally have passed millions of tree's all over Australia and I'm here to say not one has jumped out and bit me.

Animals coming out between them is another story and THAT must be addressed.

Coorong used to be really bad but I see the powers that be are trimming back to around 3 mrs from the bitumen shoulder (3 feet from white posts)......I hit a roo, or should I say the roo hit us as we passed, down there a few years back, this extra little bit gives a little more time for reaction.

Animals wandering on the road are an outback hazard but if we drive to conditions then we mostly get away with a trip out there, last trip up north we came very close to a large bull......but he missed us.

rather face the trees and the animals than a lot of the drivers coming from behind and in front......don't know what the the hell they are going to do.

[Polyal]

You know what gets me more than trees, no run off lanes in new tunnels or major freeways. The cheap bastards, spend all that money and as soon as one car breaks down boom...traffic jams for kilometers.