Opinions on Chinese manufacturing.

[XG_Falcon]

Ok, a little back story: I'm about to buy another dirt bike and I'm almost certainly going to purchase a Chinese product this time - instead of another Japanese bike (because I intend to ride it into the ground). A friend recently bought a 250cc 2-stroke "SDB" brand Chinese bike and when he bought it I was quite frankly amazed at the build quality of the bike, especially by the quality of the engine casting. He asked me to assemble the bike for him when it arrived from Internetland and I was actually surprised to see that many (but certainly not all) of the parts were on par in quality to parts from my Suzuki. At less than a quarter of the price.

This got me thinking about the improvements I have personally seen as a consumer of a wide-variety of Chinese manufactured goods over the last ten years. For example, one of my hobbies is recording music and to be honest it's becoming increasingly hard to ignore that practically all of my equipment was built in China. I'm not talking about cheap equipment designed in China but reputable brands like: KRK, Yamaha, Peavey, Samson, Behringer, TC Electronic, Marshall, Shure, etc. I have never had an issue with build quality. Ever.

It seems to me that the Chinese have allowed us to consume like crazy, even people that many would class as being "poor" Australians can have all the mod cons now...and yet I hear people talk down about Chinese manufactured goods every day of the week.

What are your opinions on Chinese manufacturing? Spin a yarn with me.

[347 mont]

In a nutshell I would agree and argue that point. Thing manufactured in China for the most part have certainly

come light years ahead and I always consider them when I'm purchasing a product. Price, how often I'm

going to use it, safety all come into the equation. I use the example of TV's it's hard to get a bad one

these days. It certainly not like the 80's where goods made in Taiwan and China were absolute garbage, use

once then throw away items. That's my opinion. Good luck with your decision.

[fps_grandma]

Regardless of location of manufacturing, the major factor is Quality Control.

Inevitably I have Chinese-made clothes and electronics. If they fail to perform their respective tasks then there's no real big loss.

But a car?
https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/chery/j1/005d2f
https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-rati...ery/j11/e02ded
I don't think so.
Pretty sure the local Chinese only buy Chinese cars because they're cheap and buy in this order:
Locally-built, locally-owned
Locally-built, foreign & local "joint venture"
Fully-imported (BMW 7-series and Mercedes-Benz S-Class are king)

Unless it's a Toyota Mark X. You only find these cars in China or Japan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H4js3uRFW0
New theme for driving through Sydney CBD.

[mik]

imo chinese can make good stuff, but theres a lot of cheaply made stuff that is crap, its just sorting the good stuff from the crap.

[Mr Brooksy]

There is a BIG difference between what's made in China that is sold outside the country; and what's made in China that is not sold outside China.

Everything we see in the rest of the world that's made in China is actually very well made. Eg a Chinese friends of mine works in one of the manufacturing plants for Nautica. The clothing is unreal (couldn't believe how much I can buy it for staff rates are like 500% cheaper than in Aus) as you'd expect. But what the average local can buy is just a step up from a clean rag but for like $1.50 for a shirt.

Their machinery/vehicles is a similar story... Stuff made for export is catching up quickly and is very cheap! But what isn't exported is rubbish beyond description. Eg Geely (owner of MG cars) they are still not up to Japanese or Korean levels but are actually not that bad. But on the other end of the stick you have Brilliance which is China's version of BMW. But you can't tell if a car has just rolled off the show room floor or was driven off the continent into the South China sea and left for 50 years... rust buckets.

Oh and FPS the new Mark X is made in China for Chinese. It's no longer imported from Japan. Most locals will buy a local car only if they can't afford a car made outside the country. If they can they will go for Germans above all else. If they can't afford Germans they will buy a Toyota but as is their relationship with the Japanese, they respect what they make but as soon as they can get something better than a Toyota it is tossed aside. There's even hate videos on their version of Facebook of all things Toyota.

[Crazy Dazz]

I have worked on some big projects, for Chinese companies, where huge quantities of stuff came from China.
You'd be amazed just how unbelievably and stupendously crap it was. Sometimes just complete garbage. They couldn't even do simple stuff like paint the steel properly. We'd pull it out of the containers and it was already flaking and rusted, so we'd have to pay Australian (onsite) rates to blast and re-paint it.
Problem is that their whole approach to life and to business is radically different to the Western World, and most people in China STILL do not understand the difference.
That's why those that understand want the world wants are becoming zillionaires.

But its like anything, if you put enough time and effort into QA & QC, AND investment in modern technology, eventually ANYBODY (including the Chinese) can produce good stuff.
So the rest is just market forces:
Lets say that in a year, China produces a Billion widgets. Some of those widgets will be made by a multinational company in a state of the art factory, to ISO standards. And the market will dictate that you pay top dollar for those.
At the other end of the spectrum, some of those widgets will be made by Dodgy Chan in his 50's communist era workshop, and be absolute rubbish. And the market should dictate that those are dirt cheap.
If you buy a recognised brand name, chances are your are getting from the top end of the spectrum.
The other thing is that many big brand names just accept that a large portion of gross production will be substandard, and simply engage in rigid quality control.

One further point to understand, particularly when it comes to things like cars, is that Australia is a relatively small market. If they're selling a million "Great Turds" across China and Asia to customers happy to buy rubbish, then it makes no sense to improve things for 20,000 sales in Australia.

[347 mont]

My biggest upset is the end of manufacturing in most wesrern nations. It's a real shame.

[Tex Scrotum]

My Chinese story.

Around about 1991 my car was stolen along with my Sidchrome socket and ring spanner tool set.

I got the car back but not the tools.

Anyway to get me out of trouble I went and bought some cheap Chinese sockets and spanners from Kmart just as a temporary fix.

35 years later I've still got those well used El cheapo sockets and spanners and have never broken one, even still have the original ratchet wrench.

Since then I've been more than happy to give the Chinese stuff ago and have been more than happy with the price/ quality ratio.

Cheers 😃

[superyob]

I bought 2 Chinese motorbikes when I taught my son to ride some time ago. The 140 cc pit bike was fairly good while the 250 was absolute rubbish. They served their purpose but now my son has a new Japanese bike. He still rides the 140 but the 250 is wasting space in the shed. Still trying to figure out what to do with it as they are worthless 2nd hand...

[Franco Cozzo]

OEX alternators and starter motors are all Chinese but we rarely have any issues with them.

[You Yangs]

Got given a Chinese copy Honda mower just over 10 years ago, now I don't know if the actual engine is genuine Honda but for certain the chassis is not. I look after things a little better than the average Joe and clean it properly, change oil the spark plug and air filter every year. This mower is fantastic and has been pushed through a mountain of work and has never let me down, I've changed a catcher bag and a snapped lower handle but that has to be expected after 10 years of hard work.

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by Tex Scrotum

My Chinese story.

Around about 1991 my car was stolen along with my Sidchrome socket and ring spanner tool set.

I got the car back but not the tools.

Anyway to get me out of trouble I went and bought some cheap Chinese sockets and spanners from Kmart just as a temporary fix.

35 years later I've still got those well used El cheapo sockets and spanners and have never broken one, even still have the original ratchet wrench.

Since then I've been more than happy to give the Chinese stuff ago and have been more than happy with the price/ quality ratio.

Cheers 😃

Agree with that 100%.
I've never had my car or complete tool sets stolen, just mechanics [ or TA's ] in a hundred different workshops stealing my good quality tools bit by bit over the years.
Early 70's I bought a 1/4" Imperial drive socket set, Japanese Koken brand, excellent.
Late 70's I bought a 1/4" Metric socket set, Chinese no name brand, excellent.
Where the big difference is as Crazy Dazz says, it's in the finish of some products.
I finished my years as a mechanic working on Chinese imported tractors, hard to fault the mechanical components but silly things like hydraulic connections, paint work, general fitment of components, fuses and fuse boxes, electrical components would give trouble.
When Daihatsu first arrived here there was some ordinary stuff, when Toyota brought out the first Land Cruisers, Lite Stouts and Crowns there was also some average quality goods.
Anyone remember the Leyland P76, now that was real quality stuff made in Australia.

[ebv8]

I had a 2000 model 250cc chinese bike and a 1981 kawasaki 175 and the kawasaki was better in every way
but thats comparing to a 15y/o chinese bike, now they usually a copy a proven model and they succeed at it, like a chinese outboard motor they are mostly exact copies of a proven yamaha/merc and they will probably last for many many years

i just would not buy a chinese made motorised product thats older than 2014 as the standards just were not there.

you would also be surprised to find out how many Australian and Japanese products are made in china now like some dunlop and goodyear tyres.

I was surprised to find out parts of my 2001 commodore had big made in china stamps from factory.

[Ford_The_Win]

I guess it depends on what it is, how long I plan on using it for, and how much it costs. I would never eat Chinese produce - 90% of the water in China is too polluted for any purpose (even industrial use) so I won't risk poisoning myself!

If it's a disposable item, no problem, I don't mind if it's a bit cheap and nasty, but if it's something I plan on using for a while and can afford a quality alternative, I'd rather not support the Chinese throwaway product. I'm happy to spend $10 on a Chinese made T-shirt, but when my washing machine conked out recently, I replaced it with a quality USA made top load washer. The thing is so heavy and well built it took three dudes to get it into my laundry.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Tex Scrotum

My Chinese story.

Around about 1991 my car was stolen along with my Sidchrome socket and ring spanner tool set.

I got the car back but not the tools.

Anyway to get me out of trouble I went and bought some cheap Chinese sockets and spanners from Kmart just as a temporary fix.

35 years later I've still got those well used El cheapo sockets and spanners and have never broken one, even still have the original ratchet wrench.

Since then I've been more than happy to give the Chinese stuff ago and have been more than happy with the price/ quality ratio.

Cheers ��

These fill me with dread...

[vztrt]

China products come in different quality. It depends on what the price the buyer is willing to pay for. So something like tools will come from the same factory but will be made at different levels of quality.

In saying that in previous job the quality of products still isn't there. Something like sidchrome isn't as good as it use to be. Dunlops are worse then before.

People want stuff cheaper so more and more stuff will come from overseas.

IMO I wouldn't risk my life on something from China. Otherwise there is some decent stuff but I think people are more use to poorer quality then before when you use to pay top dollar but stuff would last for many years.

[OCTANEBOSS]

You get what you pay for although a lot reputable companies now use china to make there products to there own standards, you can still see the difference sometimes. I helped manufacture about 6 giant sheds that where put into containers and shipped to china for erection in the late 90's for a new factory ( Some smart Aussies helped China's rise ). A example - 12 years later I was climbing the steel to change out the structural bolts on steel work in Australia because they where prone to failing and didn't comply with AU/NZ standards or international standards. Yep they came from china in a box from reputable company. To me something cheap is when you pay good money for it and still are using 20 years later, not that many things I have bought out of the PRC have lasted that long. The more market share china gets in manufacturing the less chance of buying something decent or of a excellent quality. Bit like major supermarkets & petrol stations, a monopoly is sure to become a part of history.

[GT0132]

My experiences with Chinese products.

Covers for pool lounge chairs $50 a pair from Bunnings – Had them on 6 weeks before a gust of wind ripped them to shreds

Hisense 55cm LCD TV – Had it 2 weeks and it died. It went back and was replaced with a Samsung.

Ducted Air Con in a villa we bought died – 4 years old , compressor needs a part. Because it's made in China by a brand nobody in the industry here has heard of the whole unit had to be replaced. Cost $8,500.

Same house , rust started appearing around the window frames which, according to the carpenter were of an inferior quality and made in China. In 2 years they will all need replacing.

Wan Li tyres. Never bought them myself but heard horror stories from those that had.

Small outdoor table and 2 matching chairs from Bunnings. After 6 months the glass table top had fallen through the base and smashed on the floor below. The side brackets supporting the glass had rusted out.

An ASUS laptop. Bought it for $395 . After 2 weeks the keys in certain alpha characters get stuck. I should have known better.

Friend of mine who's an electrician told me that there's a lot of inferior wiring coming into this country from China

While there may be a few exceptions (The X-Force exhaust system on my car being a notable one) Chinese products in general are crap.

As a rule of thumb if the failure of an item can be detrimental to the safety of you or your family pay the extra and get something of better quality I reckon.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by Tex Scrotum

My Chinese story.

Around about 1991 my car was stolen along with my Sidchrome socket and ring spanner tool set.

I got the car back but not the tools.

Anyway to get me out of trouble I went and bought some cheap Chinese sockets and spanners from Kmart just as a temporary fix.

35 years later I've still got those well used El cheapo sockets and spanners and have never broken one, even still have the original ratchet wrench.

Since then I've been more than happy to give the Chinese stuff ago and have been more than happy with the price/ quality ratio.

Cheers ��

1991 + 35 years = 2026....
Got myself some cheapo sockets back in my teens (1970's) - still going strong as well.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Friend of mine who's an electrician told me that there's a lot of inferior wiring coming into this country from China

This might be what he is talking about. There's gonna be some big problems with newly built houses/reno's.

https://www.recalls.gov.au/content/i...itemId/1061753
https://www.recalls.gov.au/content/i...itemId/1065290
https://www.recalls.gov.au/content/i...itemId/1075414

[GT0132]

Duplicate post

[BradEL]

Where ever I can I always try to buy New Zealand made products, everyone has to support local manufacturers of goods before they are all gone

[XG_Falcon]

Interesting replies so far, although I agree with the overall sentiment of "you get what you pay for", in my experience a diligent consumer will always find a better deal.

Obviously getting a good final product is largely dependent on maintaining quality control on the factory floor but the main thing to consider is that most of these items are designed elsewhere and licensed to be built in China. Most products are designed so that relatively unskilled labourers can be used in the manufacturing process. It's possible that certain products would be of the exact same quality if they were built where they were designed. I would use my KRK studio monitors as a good example, designed in USA & built under license in China - yet they are the industry standard for sound production.

Another thing I've been thinking about is whether there is a moral consequence to our consumer-based society. For example, Apple inc. has been manufacturing their iPhones in China since the start and they are notorious for placing far higher emphasis on quality of manufacturing - rather than maintaining safe working environments for their employees. They wouldn't get away with using toxic solder in California, that's for sure.

I've tried to support local manufacturers but it's quite apparent that barely anything is made here.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by XG_Falcon

Another thing I've been thinking about is whether there is a moral consequence to our consumer-based society. For example, Apple inc. has been manufacturing their iPhones in China since the start and they are notorious for placing far higher emphasis on quality of manufacturing - rather than maintaining safe working environments for their employees. They wouldn't get away with using toxic solder in California, that's for sure.

There is a lot of garbage thrown around about Apple and people seem to want to hold them to standards they do not apply to others.

Anyway, here is the progress report of their supplier code of conduct. Seems they do take it seriously and have done for quite some time.

http://images.apple.com/supplier-res...eport_2015.pdf

[mik]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

I guess it depends on what it is, how long I plan on using it for, and how much it costs. I would never eat Chinese produce - 90% of the water in China is too polluted for any purpose (even industrial use) so I won't risk poisoning myself!

If it's a disposable item, no problem, I don't mind if it's a bit cheap and nasty, but if it's something I plan on using for a while and can afford a quality alternative, I'd rather not support the Chinese throwaway product. I'm happy to spend $10 on a Chinese made T-shirt, but when my washing machine conked out recently, I replaced it with a quality USA made top load washer. The thing is so heavy and well built it took three dudes to get it into my laundry.

thats pretty much my take on it too, have always bought higher price white goods in either ozzy if possible, US or japanese brands.

just as an interesting comparison 3 or 4 years ago my brother bought a chinese motor kit to motorize a pushbike, after fitting it all up he gave me a go on it , once running at medium cruising speed it putted along ok, if i opened it vibrated so hard i thought the whole bike was going to come to pieces.
looking at the casting of the motor it looked pretty rough .....sometimes you can judge a book by its cover .

A couple of years ago the time had come to replace my beloved 17 year old briggs and stratton lawn mower with solid alloy body, 4 bladed cutter and good plastic catcher,
i hesitantly bought a chinese mower with a single blade cutter and fabric catcher for less than half the price of my original b & s ,
i usually buy aussie built stuff if possible but pensioner wages dont always permit , anyway the chinese mower in general has held up ok , and unlike the kit motor does everything it should without complaint....except the catcher, it still starts and runs ok today,
the catcher has fallen to bits after only two years, that being said i would be surprised if the mower itself lasted the as well as the briggs mower, but it was half the price.

[mik]

Originally Posted by GT0132

My experiences with Chinese products.

Covers for pool lounge chairs $50 a pair from Bunnings – Had them on 6 weeks before a gust of wind ripped them to shreds

Hisense 55cm LCD TV – Had it 2 weeks and it died. It went back and was replaced with a Samsung.

Ducted Air Con in a villa we bought died – 4 years old , compressor needs a part. Because it's made in China by a brand nobody in the industry here has heard of the whole unit had to be replaced. Cost $8,500.

Same house , rust started appearing around the window frames which, according to the carpenter were of an inferior quality and made in China. In 2 years they will all need replacing.

Wan Li tyres. Never bought them myself but heard horror stories from those that had.

Small outdoor table and 2 matching chairs from Bunnings. After 6 months the glass table top had fallen through the base and smashed on the floor below. The side brackets supporting the glass had rusted out.

An ASUS laptop. Bought it for $395 . After 2 weeks the keys in certain alpha characters get stuck. I should have known better.

Friend of mine who's an electrician told me that there's a lot of inferior wiring coming into this country from China

While there may be a few exceptions (The X-Force exhaust system on my car being a notable one) Chinese products in general are crap.

As a rule of thumb if the failure of an item can be detrimental to the safety of you or your family pay the extra and get something of better quality I reckon.

interesting you mention the asus laptop, i have been buying asus computer mother boards for many years and cannot remember a problem with any of them, and often they where up at the pointy end as far as the amount of gear on them and the technology, obviously a mother board has to be put together to a standard to be of any worth, where as a cheap device is the sum of its parts, some good ,some cheap and nasty.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by mik

interesting you mention the asus laptop, i have been buying asus computer mother boards for many years and cannot remember a problem with any of them, and often they where up at the pointy end as far as the amount of gear on them and the technology, obviously a mother board has to be put together to a standard to be of any worth, where as a cheap device is the sum of its parts, some good ,some cheap and nasty.

Mate I was surprised too. My wife bought an ASUS 4 years ago. It's been a damn good machine, hence why I bought one myself to replace my trusty old Toshiba. I should have realised there'd be a difference in quality due to the price differential. That's going back to JB HI FI tomorrow to be replaced with another Tosh.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by XG_Falcon

Another thing I've been thinking about is whether there is a moral consequence to our consumer-based society. For example, Apple inc. has been manufacturing their iPhones in China since the start and they are notorious for placing far higher emphasis on quality of manufacturing - rather than maintaining safe working environments for their employees. They wouldn't get away with using toxic solder in California, that's for sure.

I've tried to support local manufacturers but it's quite apparent that barely anything is made here.

Spot on.

I think with a reputable brand like Apple (or even Dunlop or Goodyear if they are now having tyres made there) deciding to source labour, and perhaps parts, from China - they will insist on a particular degree of quality and have procedures in place to assess quality levels . If those standards aren't met they will simply move to another source. It's the unheard of brands, or even those with their origins firmly entrenched in China, that are a worry. Whatever the case I find it unbelievable that some of the products we get here from China pass AUS/NZ standards. Either they are being let through so we keep in good with the Chinese or else the standards are too weak to begin with.

[XG_Falcon]

Originally Posted by cs123

There is a lot of garbage thrown around about Apple and people seem to want to hold them to standards they do not apply to others.

Anyway, here is the progress report of their supplier code of conduct. Seems they do take it seriously and have done for quite some time.

http://images.apple.com/supplier-res...eport_2015.pdf

I wasn't really trying to single Apple out, only using them as an example in the same way I used KRK as an example.

I'm well aware that my Microsoft (Nokia) phone was manufactured in a similar working environment.

Originally Posted by mik

just as an interesting comparison 3 or 4 years ago my brother bought a chinese motor kit to motorize a pushbike, after fitting it all up he gave me a go on it , once running at medium cruising speed it putted along ok, if i opened it vibrated so hard i thought the whole bike was going to come to pieces.
looking at the casting of the motor it looked pretty rough .....sometimes you can judge a book by its cover .

It interests me that you mention Chinese motorised bicycle kits because I actually own one, which I bought about six months ago. The engine casting on this one is very good, I would have thought it was a Japanese engine if I hadn't been the one that bought it from China. The quality of most of the machined components that came with this kit were of fairly high standard. The instructions made me laugh though.

I had another Chinese motorised bicycle about three or four years ago but the engine casting was terrible, with a lot of vibration at higher RPMs - similar to what you describe. Although the only serious issue I had was a blown head gasket after about 50km - I made another in about 10 mins and never had another problem.

The thing is, I paid less for this newer engine but it is much smoother, more powerful and clearly manufactured to a higher standard. It seems like their nation's manufacturing standards are constantly improving.

[snowcone]

The Chinese can build anything to a price.
If you want a 25kva generator and only want to pay $1500, they will build it. It will only last a year but you got it.
If you want one and will pay $10,000, then you will get one as good as any other.
Simple business sense, you get what you pay for.

I have to replace the front hub assemblies on my Ford explorer every 2 years.
The Chinese ones cost me around $150 for a pair delivered. I can buy ones with Timken or SKF bearings in them but they cost $150 US each and then I have to ship them.

My labour is worth sfa and it is probably the only time I check the brake pads anyway so i just do the job