Call for speed limit increase on the Pacific and Hume?

[aussie muscle]

NSW Roads Minister Duncan Gay is pursuing a speed limit increase along the Pacific and Hume Highways, from 110km/h to 120km/h on dry days, claiming that current speed limits didn't reflect the latest automotive standards.

The minister's comments follow a decision in the Northern Territory where motorists were permanently allowed to choose their own speed along a 276 kilometre section of highway following a successful 18 month evidence-based trial.

In a decision condemned by medical authorities, Territory Chief Minister Adam Giles on Thursday handed down a report confirming that open speed limits had reduced the number of accidents along the trial section of the Stuart Highway when compared with a 130km/h posting previously in place.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/call-for-s...#ixzz3klHuBgHX



now, where are my grains of salt???

[Mowdit]

It is always going to be a subject that is CONTROVERSIAL
All the "do gooders want it lowered...
The design engineer's say a "set speed" (based on 1965 stats)
Those that do a lot of driving want it raised, to cut travel times
I don't drive a vehicle with 6volt lighting and no power assisted brakes, and can drive comfortability at twice the current limit of most roads, but I am not an armchair driver either (am too busy looking out for Mr PLOD).....

How often do you drive a road only to find the speed limit has been lowered ?
This increases the travel time, and in turn the time on any given section, hence increasing traffic volume, and potential for incidents/accidents. (Yes, mistakes/idiots cause "accidents", not speed ! speed only increases the severity).

Better urban thoroughfare design to get you to the suburb you want at a higher speed to decrease congestion and travel times would mean you "may" be less likely to speed in a built up area, and therefore less likely to injur someone ?

The Hume with all its bye passes, divided road and "engineered" design for most of the section south of syd to the Vic border could easily be raised (as demonstrated by cars magazine a few years back)

[Feathers]

Having just done a 6000km road trip through Finland, Norway, Denmark and Germany, where we were covering 6-700km a day at 140+kph, coming home to our speed limits was a joke.
I had to head out on the recently completed section of the M5 a couple of days later - which could easily be 130kph, but no.

Because we only teach people to pass the driving test, and not how to actually drive, we have to cater to the lowest common denominator.

Even worse is that most people these days seem to believe all the fear mongering about speed limits, and think we should be going even slower!

[vztrt]

They should leave the speed limit at 110. Just don't book people who get up to about 130kph. Its a nicer speed and reduces fatigue.

[new2ford]

I'm surprised he nominated 120. 130 is really the optimum comfortable speed for well-profiled and designed motorways, taking safety and other factors into account. The Hume is readily capable of taking that.

The heavy vehicle speed must be kept at 100 though, so that safe passing is enabled.

Incidentally, I noticed when driving in Germany that 120 is the speed that traffic is slowed down to around busy interchanges!

There was probably a discussion in the Minister's office:

Gay: I want 130
RMS: no it must be 110
Gay: I'll do you a deal - 120
RMS: Done
Hi-5s all around

[DBourne]

The cars can do 130, sure, absolutely no doubt.

But as Feathers said above, people aren't taught to drive..

Hell, people can't find the courage to do 60km/h in perfect sunshine. What chance do we have of them moving at 130?

[new2ford]

Those (many) who can competently drive at 130 will. Those who can't will stick to the left lanes. Why will they stick to the left lane? Because those performing the old trick of staying in the right ("because I'm travelling at the speed limit therefore nobody needs to pass me") will be too uncomfortable maintaining this practice at 130. Human nature would sort it out, you'll see.

There are actually poor drivers all over the world, even in Germany.

I guess one thing about 120 at least is that in practice it will be possible to do 130.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by vztrt

They should leave the speed limit at 110. Just don't book people who get up to about 130kph. Its a nicer speed and reduces fatigue.

I like this idea.
Actually when i was in the states last year, we drove from Santa Monica to San Francisco and the freeway limit posted was 70mph. I was on 75 and people were cruising past me at least by 5 - 10mph. There were cops on the roads but did nothing. Speaking to locals, the cops are not interested in dealing with anything like that, more than 15 - 20mph over is where their attention is focused. As long as the conditions are right for it (road, weather and traffic) then a comfortable 20km/h over shouldn't be an issue.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I like this idea.
Actually when i was in the states last year, we drove from Santa Monica to San Francisco and the freeway limit posted was 70mph. I was on 75 and people were cruising past me at least by 5 - 10mph. There were cops on the roads but did nothing. Speaking to locals, the cops are not interested in dealing with anything like that, more than 15 - 20mph over is where their attention is focused. As long as the conditions are right for it (road, weather and traffic) then a comfortable 20km/h over shouldn't be an issue.

Pretty much the situation in Europe too. But you see, those countries/states most likely don't have an expected revenue level, that has to be met, built into their state budgets.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by new2ford

But you see, those countries/states most likely don't have an expected revenue level, that has to be met, built into their state budgets.

I see you've gone directly to the crux of the issue !!

Dr Terry

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I like this idea.
Actually when i was in the states last year, we drove from Santa Monica to San Francisco and the freeway limit posted was 70mph. I was on 75 and people were cruising past me at least by 5 - 10mph. There were cops on the roads but did nothing. Speaking to locals, the cops are not interested in dealing with anything like that, more than 15 - 20mph over is where their attention is focused. As long as the conditions are right for it (road, weather and traffic) then a comfortable 20km/h over shouldn't be an issue.

I was doing about 90-100mph going from Vegas to Phoenix and only just passing people. About 80-90mph around California as the cops were more strict over there.....and their roads were more rubbish then NSW roads.

[XPfalcon170]

Originally Posted by Feathers

Because we only teach people to pass the driving test, and not how to actually drive, we have to cater to the lowest common denominator.

110% that's spot on!

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Those (many) who can competently drive at 130 will. Those who can't will stick to the left lanes. Why will they stick to the left lane? Because those performing the old trick of staying in the right ("because I'm travelling at the speed limit therefore nobody needs to pass me") will be too uncomfortable maintaining this practice at 130. Human nature would sort it out, you'll see.

I hope you're right. Would be a beautiful place to be if people actually just moved over, and dropped the "I'm a safe driver" bs.

[Vesper Martini]

I like the idea of the higher limit, but in Victoria there's more of a movement to drop limits then fin you for going 2kph over it.

But being subjective if the limit were 120-130kph on the Hume, you will still get Trucks and other vehicle doing 100.
this is where the average driver will come unstuck, poorer drivers cant judge distance to speed, in the same way they cant pull out of a side street without needing enough space for a freight train to pass.

Another aspect to look at would be fuel consumption, less aerodynamic vehicles like my Territory start sucking pretty hard at over 110kph

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

But being subjective if the limit were 120-130kph on the Hume, you will still get Trucks and other vehicle doing 100.
this is where the average driver will come unstuck, poorer drivers cant judge distance to speed, in the same way they cant pull out of a side street without needing enough space for a freight train to pass.

Another aspect to look at would be fuel consumption, less aerodynamic vehicles like my Territory start sucking pretty hard at over 110kph

The speed differential between heavy vehicles and cars actually becomes a safety advantage, as you'd see if you'd driven in jurisdictions where they have this (e.g. in Europe). You can complete an overtaking manoeuvre quickly and safely and get well clear of the vehicle you've just overtaken.

Ever noticed the slow creep you get here with cars passing trucks when all are going at the same speed? The overtaking vehicle spends eons in the proximity of the overtaken vehicle for fear of being pinged by the HP and then invariably pulls in just in front, to the frustration of the overtaken driver. Quite dangerous.

Truck drivers must be particularly frustrated by this as they are driving to the speed limit via GPS whereas most car drivers think they're driving to the limit but usually several km/h under due to over-reading speedos. I can say from experience that a 130 limit completely gets rid of this dangerous and frustrating situation.

As for fuel consumption, I can only say that the Octavia I was driving in Europe was giving me 6 l/100 regardless of whether I was driving at 90 or 150. Doesn't really make much difference. Euro cars in particular are designed to do these speeds economically.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I like the idea of the higher limit, but in Victoria there's more of a movement to drop limits then fin you for going 2kph over it.

But being subjective if the limit were 120-130kph on the Hume, you will still get Trucks and other vehicle doing 100.
this is where the average driver will come unstuck, poorer drivers cant judge distance to speed, in the same way they cant pull out of a side street without needing enough space for a freight train to pass.

Another aspect to look at would be fuel consumption, less aerodynamic vehicles like my Territory start sucking pretty hard at over 110kph

Most of the Hume in Vic is duel lane....even the Goulburn has plenty of double lane stuff. Duel lane is where you would have the best chance (in Vic) to get a 130kph limit.

IN NSW the Newel could get away with that limit because there is bugger all traffic...especially when you get close to QLD.....mind you the cops don't seem to hang around up there either.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Most of the Hume in Vic is duel lane....even the Goulburn has plenty of double lane stuff. Duel lane is where you would have the best chance (in Vic) to get a 130kph limit.

IN NSW the Newel could get away with that limit because there is bugger all traffic...especially when you get close to QLD.....mind you the cops don't seem to hang around up there either.

Yes the duel lane highways are exceptional in Victoria. like driving on an airport runway!
Still plenty of people that only drive at 100kph on them. as New2ford says quite frustrating when they try an overtake a truck

[Bill M]

There was this interview on the ABC -
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-0...ghways/6749158

Minister Gay...

The Minister said the research would consider whether the community believed it was right and whether it was an appropriate way to spend taxpayer money.

"I haven't indicated I want to increase the speed but I'm looking at getting some facts so there can be a proper community debate," Mr Gay said.

"I don't believe that the community is in the situation where they'd want to spend that extra money to change the roads to be able to have the extra speed.

"But people have asked for the debate and I was gathering the information for that debate."

Mr Gay said there were only two roads in NSW that were close to the grade separation of the European standard: the M1 between Sydney and Newcastle and the F5 between Sydney and Goulburn.

"The RMS (Roads and Maritime Services) said European-style roads involve grade separation on the intersections so we're doing a look to see what the cost was, so we can put that together for a grown-up discussion," the Minister said.

"My belief is, like me, the community wouldn't support it."

[LTDHO]

If road users showed they can drive safely at 100 then maybe the speed limits would be increased.

[mik]

So just as as a matter of interest, if you guys and gals had a choice of speed out on the open good quality bit of extended length country highway/freeway suitable for lets say for arguments sake up to 160 kph, and approved by the powers that be
, what honest speed to do you think you would be happy to motor along at ......we are assuming here your car is in good road worthy condition, road conditions and traffic are excellent.

it would be interesting to see your reasoning for the speed you pick.
im pretty sure both of my old cars would be able to sustain a reasonable speed as i keep them in good order and well serviced, though my au tends to get a bit noisy in the upper speed ranges, big tyres, big exhaust, and tend s to like a drink at high speed, probably 120 kph (gps corrected)would be my happy speed in the au even though it would be capable of higher sustained speeds easily.

my old lexus is bog standard limo spec in good order and dead quiet, id probably be happy to sit a bit higher 130/140 assuming the road conditions where suitable and the car did not float around too much.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by mik

So just as as a matter of interest, if you guys and gals had a choice of speed out on the open good quality bit of extended length country highway/freeway suitable for lets say for arguments sake up to 160 kph, and approved by the powers that be
, what honest speed to do you think you would be happy to motor along at ......we are assuming here your car is in good road worthy condition, road conditions and traffic are excellent.

it would be interesting to see your reasoning for the speed you pick.
im pretty sure both of my old cars would be able to sustain a reasonable speed as i keep them in good order and well serviced, though my au tends to get a bit noisy in the upper speed ranges, big tyres, big exhaust, and tend s to like a drink at high speed, probably 120 kph (gps corrected)would be my happy speed in the au even though it would be capable of higher sustained speeds easily.

my old lexus is bog standard limo spec in good order and dead quiet, id probably be happy to sit a bit higher 130/140 assuming the road conditions where suitable and the car did not float around too much.

160 limit, i'd probably cruise along at around 130, depending on conditions and the car. I'd find that a suitable speed for my car (it could do higher but for long periods of time I'd rather keep it lower).

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by mik

So just as as a matter of interest, if you guys and gals had a choice of speed out on the open good quality bit of extended length country highway/freeway suitable for lets say for arguments sake up to 160 kph, and approved by the powers that be
, what honest speed to do you think you would be happy to motor along at ......we are assuming here your car is in good road worthy condition, road conditions and traffic are excellent.

it would be interesting to see your reasoning for the speed you pick.
im pretty sure both of my old cars would be able to sustain a reasonable speed as i keep them in good order and well serviced, though my au tends to get a bit noisy in the upper speed ranges, big tyres, big exhaust, and tend s to like a drink at high speed, probably 120 kph (gps corrected)would be my happy speed in the au even though it would be capable of higher sustained speeds easily.

my old lexus is bog standard limo spec in good order and dead quiet, id probably be happy to sit a bit higher 130/140 assuming the road conditions where suitable and the car did not float around too much.

Back in the 80's I was doing 70,000 - 80,000 per year in my job and once out of the suburbs my usual cruising speed was 140 kph and a lot of other reps I knew drove the same.

The biggest difference I noticed as the 100 kph limit was becoming enforced was that I started to get tired. Driving at the higher speed kept me more alert and focused.

Circuit racing was my form of relaxing on days off so I know how to handle tricky situations but I wouldn't recommend the plethora of empty headed grubs dawdling about on our roads texting and looking at themselves in the mirror should drive at those speeds.

[Mowdit]

mik brings up a very good point

How fast do you want to travel

More important to consider is "how fast you want that 21yo nervous idiot to be driving" ?

I would happily drive at 160kph, BUT, wouldn't like some of the people I know to drive about 60kph

(seriously, I had a girlfriend a few years back who couldn't/wouldn't pass a tractor on an old country rd !!! She would either travel at 20kph behind it or STOP )

IF they bought in a licence test and ID emitter to enable those who CAN to go faster and the plebs to "keep left" with the trucks ..........

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Pedro

Back in the 80's I was doing 70,000 - 80,000 per year in my job and once out of the suburbs my usual cruising speed was 140 kph and a lot of other reps I knew drove the same.

The biggest difference I noticed as the 100 kph limit was becoming enforced was that I started to get tired. Driving at the higher speed kept me more alert and focused.
.

That's funny, I started in the 70s and would make the same observation. Back then in Australia and subsequently in Europe I found that around 130 was a comfortable balanced speed. Sometimes cruising at 120 with bursts to 140 for overtaking. 130 is pretty spot on as a motorway speed limit subject to local conditions. In bad weather etc of course slow down to the conditions.

[MAD]

I find 130 to be a great cruise speed.
Quick enough that you know you have to be alert, but not fast enough that you end up with white knuckles.

It's also a good balance for fuel economy.

There are sections on the Hume in vic that could easily support clear sky limit of 160 imo.

[marty351]

130 on the open road is a great limit, but then the lowest common denominator comes in.
Inexperienced and typical Camry drivers would be the danger, not just to themselves.

I can imagine the news headlines now.

[Trump]

I think the minister is pushing for redundancy. He'll be unemployed soon enough with attitudes like his.

[HI PSI]

Why not ????? He does have some relevant points.

I have often pondered such scenarios, where sufficiently trained drivers with "rated" vehicles, would have such limits increased.

[Spurious]

It'll never happen.

Increased speed = increased risk.

2 reasons why it won't happen, increased risk & a drop in infringement revenue!

[Spurious]

Originally Posted by MAD

There are sections on the Hume in vic that could easily support clear sky limit of 160 imo.

Yeh it's all good until the knob doing 110 pulls out in front of YOU to get around the truck that you're both approaching.

This is a common occurrence on the fabled Autobahns.

IMO, people are to stupid & arrogant to be trusted to do those speeds. Christ, the state limit is already an issue for some idiots.