The People's Cart company in the news again

[new2ford]

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/0...0RI1YF20150918

Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) faces penalties up to $18 billion after being accused of designing software for diesel cars that deceives regulators measuring toxic emissions, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said on Friday.

"Put simply, these cars contained software that turns off emissions controls when driving normally and turns them on when the car is undergoing an emissions test," Cynthia Giles, an enforcement officer at the EPA, told reporters in a teleconference.

Volkswagen can face civil penalties of $37,500 for each vehicle not in compliance with federal clean air rules. There are 482,000 four-cylinder VW and Audi diesel cars sold since 2008 involved in the allegations. If each car involved is found to be in noncompliance, the penalty could be $18 billion, an EPA official confirmed on the teleconference.

A U.S. Volkswagen spokesman said the company "is cooperating with the investigation; we are unable to comment further at this time."

The feature in question, which the EPA called a "defeat device," masks the true emissions only during testing and therefore when the cars are on the road they emit as much as 40 times the level of pollutants allowed under clean air rules meant to ensure public health is protected, Giles said.

The EPA accused Volkswagen of using software in four-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi diesel cars from model years 2009 to 2015 made to circumvent emissions testing of certain air pollutants.

The cars are not facing recall at this time, the EPA said. VW did not indicate on Friday how it will address the issue.

The EPA has the authority to order VW to recall the vehicles. However, that process could take up to a year, depending on the complexity of the issue, an EPA official said.

The diesel-powered vehicles involved from the 2009 to 2015 model years are the VW Jetta, VW Beetle, VW Golf and the Audi A3, as well as the VW Passat from model years 2014 and 2015.

VW in North America has heavily marketed its vehicles as being "clean diesel."

In a television commercial that has aired frequently this year in the United States, VW says it is the "No. 1 diesel car brand in America," brags its cars are "clean diesel" and asks viewers, "Isn't it time for German engineering?"

Since 2009, diesel vehicles have made up approximately 15 percent of VW and Audi U.S. sales.

[Franco Cozzo]

Hitlers Revenge.

[XR Martin]

I heard about this a little while ago how diesels are no where near as clean in real life as they claim to be.

[Bill M]

If the EPA's allegation is accurate then that is a huge risk for a company to take.

[Freiherr]

That is only in the US. Then there are other countries who would probably jump on the Volks Wagon, I mean band wagon when $ £ € are involverd.
Dirty, dirty little diesels.
So, Hyundai diesels are cleaner, or are Koreans using better perfumes to disguise their readings.

[Trump]

So how does one explain so many clogged DPF's on the VAG product if the emissions systems are alleged to not be running?

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

So how does one explain so many clogged DPF's on the VAG product if the emissions systems are alleged to not be running?

Maybe they wouldn't be clogged if the entire emissions systems were running as it was claimed?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Maybe they wouldn't be clogged if the entire emissions systems were running as it was claimed?

The DPF gets clogged because it is the only part of the emission control system that traps the larger particulate matter (ie the soot). The catalytic systems pertinent to a diesel would do the rest (gaseous emissions).

I am wondering what evidence the US EPA has to make such claims.

[XR Martin]

Yeah DPFs only traps soot particles.
Its the NOx emissions that are the issue here.

[mik]

Well if they have allegedly done the sneaky on emissions then they deserve a nice little fine, 18 billion sounds like a fair amount ?

[Express]

It makes me feel better about my 100cpi cats.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

So how does one explain so many clogged DPF's on the VAG product if the emissions systems are alleged to not be running?

People using incorrect diesel oil not conforming to manufacturers specifications.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

People using incorrect diesel oil not conforming to manufacturers specifications.

Correct, not using low SAPS/ash oil and driving their diesels like grandmas.

Flog the *** out of it, no DPF issues.

[Binny]

This is the tip of the iceberg. I bet many manufacturers do this, and with petrol models as well.

[new2ford]

Now a recall:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/bu...ware.html?_r=0

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Binny

This is the tip of the iceberg. I bet many manufacturers do this, and with petrol models as well.

You can count on it.

[XR Martin]

End of diesel cars

[MAD]

We've always known Holden have faked efficiency tests for the Commodore

[mik]

It looks like for VW ........... fill in the blanks , the _ _ _ _ , soot ??? is going to hit the fan !

[Express]

Originally Posted by MAD

We've always known Holden have faked efficiency tests for the Commodore

You don’t have to fake anything in Australia.

The emissions requirements here are so far behind the rest of the developed world, you could burn a rainforest under the bonnet and the Government wouldn’t care.

[2011G6E]

More importantly, "Are they economical?"
From what I've seen among people I know who own various kinds of VW diesel, the answer is Yes. If true, then who damn well cares. Doesn't the amount of fuel they're burning matter more? Aren't we aiming for minimising fuel use?

I still remember back in 1976 when ADR 27A came in...this was the start of makers fitting of anti-pollution equipment to vehicles engines.
The results? Supposedly better emissions for "cleaner air". Yippee!! That's great...isn't it...?

Oh...but they did severely affect the power output of engines, slashing the kilowatts produced by so much that car magazines and manufacturers stopped quoting power outputs for several years after as it was so apparent how gutless the new systems had made the old engines...for instance, the last of the rompin' stompin' 351 Clevo's only put out about 140kw if it was lucky...
They also made fuel economy much worse...but hey, the pollution was, apparently, better. Well...for the first six months apparently and then the complicated systems would clog up and the resulting power and economy got even worse.

Cars contribute such a tiny tiny percentage of overall air pollution that in a country like Australia we shouldn't even bother with it...

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

More importantly, "Are they economical?"
From what I've seen among people I know who own various kinds of VW diesel, the answer is Yes. If true, then who damn well cares. Doesn't the amount of fuel they're burning matter more? Aren't we aiming for minimising fuel use?

Read up about NOx and tell me why you think it should be ok to pump out as much as you like.

[2011G6E]

Even in the days of leaded fuel things weren't as bad as we were led to believe.

Lead levels in children!!! It's horrifying!!!!
Yes...it sure was. Something had to be done.

And it was. Lead levels in childrens blood started to fall well before leaded petrol was banned. It started when lead based house paints were banned and lead solder in food tins was removed.
Not to mention that lead, even as a particulate in exhaust gases, is heavy. When they measured lead levels in exhaust fumes in the "bad old days" they would measure them on and right at the edge of the bitumen...and they seemed very bad.
However, if they moved back a meter or so from the edge of the road, the levels dropped dramatically. Further back they would be virtually at normal environmental levels. Basically, the lead particles would "fall" to the road surface and be washed away.

So we replaced "nasty" lead with "safe" additives in unleaded...which were actually cancer causing and worse then lead. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Australia isn't smog choked Beijing or Mumbai...

[Trump]

2011G6E is on the money, the additives in unleaded fuel are known carcinogens by any metric.

A rumour doing the rounds is that the US government is doing this as a cash grab and chose the VAG group as the target most likely to cough up should punitive action be taken. The story goes that they have dirt that every single manufacturer does the same thing as VW are alleged to have done. The reason VW were chosen is they saw the potential for any of the the rest of them being bankrupted.

[Express]

Volkswagen Drops 17% After Admitting Diesel Emissions Cheat


Naomi Kresge and Richard Weiss

Volkswagen AG dropped the most in almost seven years, after it admitted to cheating on U.S. air pollution tests for years, risking billions in potential fines and a backlash from consumers in the world’s second-biggest car market.

The shares declined as much as 17 percent, or 27.9 euros, to 134.5 euros in Frankfurt, the most since Nov. 3, 2008. The drop extends the slump for the year to 25 percent, valuing the Wolfsburg, Germany-based company at 65.3 billion euros ($73.9 billion, or £47.6 billion). The stock traded at 137.8 euros at 9:34 a.m. in Frankfurt.

Volkswagen Chief Executive Officer Martin Winterkorn said on Sunday that the company is cooperating with the probe and ordered its own external investigation into the issue. The CEO said he was “deeply sorry” for breaking the public’s trust. VW has halted sales of the car models involved, which were a cornerstone of Winterkorn’s effort to catch up in the U.S. The violations, which affect nearly half a million vehicles, could result in as much as $18 billion (£12 billion) in fines. Criminal prosecution is also possible.

“If this ends up having been structural fraud, the top management in Wolfsburg may have to bear the consequences,” said Sascha Gommel, a Frankfurt-based analyst for Commerzbank AG, whose share rating is under review.

The German carmaker admitted to fitting its U.S. diesel vehicles with software that turns on full pollution controls only when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, the Environmental Protection Agency said Friday. The violations, which affect nearly half a million vehicles, could result in as much as $18 billion in fines. Criminal prosecution is also possible.



© Reuters

Analysts at Kepler Cheuvreux downgraded the shares to “hold” from “buy,” cutting their target price 27 percent to 185 euros. Volkswagen faces not only a short-term drop in sales and hit to its reputation but also the longer-term risk of litigation in the U.S., the analysts wrote in a note on Monday.

During normal driving, the cars with the software -- known as a “defeat device” -- would pollute 10 times to 40 times the legal limits, the EPA estimated. The discrepancy emerged after the International Council on Clean Transportation commissioned real-world emissions tests of diesel vehicles including a Jetta and Passat, then compared them to lab results.

Volkswagen had counted on clean, powerful diesel cars to help it build its sales in the U.S., where it has struggled for years. Sales of VW-brand cars in the country dropped 10 percent last year to 366,970.


--With assistance from Jeff Plungis in Washington, Noah Buhayar in Seattle and Chris Reiter in Berlin.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/insid...B&ocid=u220dhp

[MAD]

Originally Posted by Express

You don’t have to fake anything in Australia.

The emissions requirements here are so far behind the rest of the developed world, you could burn a rainforest under the bonnet and the Government wouldn’t care.

Efficiency test, not emissions.

Holden never seem to get their claimed l/100km.

[mik]

If the volksey diesel is running with the emission controls working in tricky mode ........ how does that effect the fuel consumption ?

If the volksey diesel is running as per normally in pollute mode (when nobody is watching )out in the open spaces how does that effect fuel consumption ?

If volksey diesel was running in relaxed pollute mode during road tests and reviews how will it now operate should it have to have tricky mode have to be legally turned off ?

Dear tricky diesel (VW)
Does VW have any more tricky programs ? would be interested to buy as i wish to get my 8.4 litre quad injected and super boosted diesel powered laser passed through emission testing ? any info much appreciated.

[Syndrome]

The old political foes are at it again.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

2011G6E is on the money, the additives in unleaded fuel are known carcinogens by any metric.

A rumour doing the rounds is that the US government is doing this as a cash grab and chose the VAG group as the target most likely to cough up should punitive action be taken. The story goes that they have dirt that every single manufacturer does the same thing as VW are alleged to have done. The reason VW were chosen is they saw the potential for any of the the rest of them being bankrupted.

Considered this when I read it, perhaps also a geopolitical motive too, like with the Mistral class ships? What would happen if Germany pivoted East?

Politically clever, you create such a maze of rules and regulations that everyone will be in breach of something. Then enforce selectively at your leisure.

[XR Martin]

11 million soot chuckers to be recalled Worldwide now