Electric cars

[chrisandsharon]

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/at...san-gtr-2016-9

In 10 years all the hot rods of today (irrespective of make and model) will all
be 'chitty chitty bang bang' cars - slow and boring. Not long from now I'll see a young bloke in an electric car totally obliterate my F6 from the lights while eating French fries and in 'auto pilot'

What's happening in the electric world is just crazy -and exciting-......interesting days ahead.

[mik]

Have you watched electric cars racing, it's the most boring thing you have seen, I'd rather have the f6 any day of the week.

[Ford17]

I agree in that in ~10 years' time, the current crop of cars will largely be redundant as performance models (think I might have set up a similar post some time ago).

The thing though is what most collectors/enthusiasts may not have yet realised, is how lucky they are/have been so far; in that things haven't really changed all that much in the last half century or so.

Cars always have, and still use: petrol, tyres, similar batteries, and oil; which are as readily available now as they once were.
That is why older and desirable cars, including 1970's GT's etc, are still valuable, able to work easily, and can be driven easily - nothing too revolutionary has come along and prevented them from doing so.

Take a game-changer like Tesla, and an ensuing huge shift in consumer buying patterns; and everything we've been used to has to capacity to become obsolete pretty quickly.

It all really adds another point in the argument which of the current Falcons will become collectible - the answer possibly being none of them; and the dream run earlier GT's etc have had will probably never be repeated.

[chrisandsharon]

Originally Posted by mik

Have you watched electric cars racing, it's the most boring thing you have seen, I'd rather have the f6 any day of the week.

I reckon an electric van that obliterates my F6 would be very entertaining with me lmao......and to everyone else watching too

[HO 3]

^^^^
We will probably have our own Australianna car version of Pebble Beach by then with rarely driven, high end restored Australian muscle cars gracing manicured lawns to the delight of all in attendance.

Cheers Mick

[superyob]

I love listening to radio 302. Radio road tyre noise is somehow not appealing. I don't now how much it will cost to recharge an electric car though. Comparable to petrol???

[bangm001]

To keep driving them we'll probably have to fit battery packs!! LOL!

I love the Teslas, they are a nice shape and go like the clappers. Would I own one yet: NO. But given the performance times they can achieve (10sec 1.4mile times) and now with the P100D they are getting close on 700kms from a single charge. I reckon given another 5-10 years we will all WANT to drive them...

[Strange1]

Originally Posted by bangm001

now with the P100D they are getting close on 700kms from a single charge.

700km?! Manufacturers claim is 506km, and we all know what manufacturers claims are worth

[JC]

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/at...san-gtr-2016-9

In 10 years all the hot rods of today (irrespective of make and model) will all
be 'chitty chitty bang bang' cars - slow and boring. Not long from now I'll see a young bloke in an electric car totally obliterate my F6 from the lights while eating French fries and in 'auto pilot'

What's happening in the electric world is just crazy -and exciting-......interesting days ahead.

They showed it beating the Fezza, but the 458 can do 1/4 mile in 10.7s @ 135.5 mph. Something wrong with the footage.

[chrisandsharon]

Originally Posted by JC

They showed it beating the Fezza, but the 458 can do 1/4 mile in 10.7s @ 135.5 mph. Something wrong with the footage.

Meh.....the van was in 'super insane' mode.....comes in handy for the super quick pizza delivery times.

[bangm001]

Originally Posted by Strange1

700km?! Manufacturers claim is 506km, and we all know what manufacturers claims are worth

Im sure I read somewhere (motor mag) or the like that they were getting 700kms.. Maybe im just getting old....

[Matty4]

Have a look at the Tesla Racing Channel on youtube, quite entertaining to see who (and what) he takes on.

[mik]

i had a sit in tesla about two months ago , they where doing the advertising thing in shopping centre , it looked quite nice inside and out , but i wasnt blown away by it , the seats where a bit average imo , i dont know if they where the norm or sports types , but they where very hard ,
other than the big centre screen it just came across as like an up market toyota camry or mazda 6 , and theres nothing the matter with that , no doubt the technology does some cool stuff.
but i could think of plenty of cars i would be looking at before the tesla .
i asked the bloke the cost , and it was 115k + and upward .
.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by mik

i had a sit in tesla about two months ago , they where doing the advertising thing in shopping centre , it looked quite nice inside and out , but i wasnt blown away by it , the seats where a bit average imo , i dont know if they where the norm or sports types , but they where very hard ,
other than the big centre screen it just came across as like an up market toyota camry or mazda 6 , and theres nothing the matter with that , no doubt the technology does some cool stuff.
but i could think of plenty of cars i would be looking at before the tesla .
i asked the bloke the cost , and it was 115k + and upward .
.

G'day mik and all....Fords first real dabble here..http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/trim/electric/ What do you think ?
Cheers Rod...

[superyob]

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/at...san-gtr-2016-9

In 10 years all the hot rods of today (irrespective of make and model) will all
be 'chitty chitty bang bang' cars - slow and boring. Not long from now I'll see a young bloke in an electric car totally obliterate my F6 from the lights while eating French fries and in 'auto pilot'

What's happening in the electric world is just crazy -and exciting-......interesting days ahead.

Are they going to let the general population loose in missiles though or tone them down for general use???

[Sabantien]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day mik and all....Fords first real dabble here..http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/trim/electric/ What do you think ?
Cheers Rod...

For a car around town, this would be the bees knees.

Apparently the 2017 is going to have improved range (160km), and their 0-100 is about 10 seconds, so they're no Tesla, but they're not meant to be.

The Focus would do 99% of my driving quite easily.

Would I replace my G6E? No. I do actually do some longish distances a few times a year, but it would very easily replace the girl's A1. We tend to use the hatch around Brisbane in any case.

That said, if we do see it here, it'll probably be over 50k, probably 60, at which point I'd be more inclined to buy a Model 3.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Don't know much about electric cars to be honest.

What are the running costs and refuelling costs like??

Electricity does not come from no where, and batteries don't last for ever and are expensive to manufacture and very resource intense.

What might seem like a low pollution option could be very polluting.

I could see it as an option for a commuter to and from work and grocery getter if costs add up. How would they go towing a large trailer or caravan??

Then there is the issue of disposing of and recycling the batteries and sourcing huge amounts of nickel to make batteries.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

And the other thing to consider is your quality and enjoyment of life.

I would rather be old and telling my grand kids about how I used to drive my Big Block powered XB Coupe, or how my old XB GT was my daily driver, or how I had a Hummer for a tow car and shooting rig, rather than how much money I saved driving a kitchen appliance.

[Bill M]

The future is here now.
https://thescene.com/watch/wired/ins...ing-its-future

It seems sacrilegious to post this near the last day of Falcon production but it is reality.
The piston engined beasts of today and yesterday will be relegated to the memories of those that love them. Legislation and the economics of fossil fuel production will hasten their demise. :-(

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

I remember the 80's when people said no one will be driving V8's in a few years time, 30 years later there are more V8's on the road than back in the 80's.

I also recall a news/current affairs story saying that once petrol hits 50 cents a litre cars would no longer be a viable option.

Wonder how this electric car thing will pan out...

[JessieXT]

There is an electric car show on October 16th at Swinburne Uni in Hawthorn.
This was always my impression of electric cars but they are a bit different now.



http://www.onlymelbourne.com.au/melb...o#.V_YvuySL3zE

[Ford17]

Listening to Motortorque on the radio last night, electric cars featured predominatly.

Mr Hagon mentioned Mercedes Benz were scheduling 25% of their production being electric within 10 years. Born about by Tesla's impact too.

Somebody mentioned internal combustion engines will one day be like steam engines - that's probably an accurate analogy.

The last of the steam engines were used where electricity was not available, but were eventually replaced by diesel electric - i.e. electric, but with their own built in power-station.

[Stefan]

Electric cars will be the future no question about it.

The future was bleak when it was Prius et al that was the future. But with Tesla at least it shows a car can perform and look good and be electric.

My kids don't give two hoots about my old bangers, so I'm a dying breed. But I can embrace change and will buy a nice electric car in the future and have my old banger in the shed...

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I remember the 80's when people said no one will be driving V8's in a few years time, 30 years later there are more V8's on the road than back in the 80's.

I also recall a news/current affairs story saying that once petrol hits 50 cents a litre cars would no longer be a viable option.

Wonder how this electric car thing will pan out...

I remember the 80's when people said they would never stop producing super petrol...

[Mercury Bullet]

Am I the only person who thinks true electric (powered by battery) cars will be a niche player?
Yes I can certainly see their application as a 'city' car but they come with compromises that I'm not sure most people will like. At home they will take near on a day to fully charge using a 10amp circuit. You can't just unplug it when you need a bottle of milk or a pack of fags from the shop otherwise you will doom your batteries and have a very costly replacement on your hands.

Yeah you will find charging stations galore on the Hume but get into the real outback and it's a different story. There is no power out there and servos have to generate their own using diesel gensets. They don't have excess power to give away.

Tesla have done a brilliant job of marketing but are we getting all the facts? Sure ludicrous mode is fun but is it a one trick pony, how many ludicrous 'shots' do you get per charge?

How long do the batteries last before you need to buy new ones, how much will that cost?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some old stuck on dinosaur, I believe electric is the future.
But what kind of electric, battery or hybrid?

Personally I see hybrid being the future, we have been using it for 60-70 years now in heavy industry. Tesla can rant on all it likes about having the fastest car but the fact is it's not. The big 3, Porsche, McLaren and Ferrari hybrids are all faster and can go much further.

I have visions of something not yet talked about publicly, a 3d printed micro-turbine (yep a jet engine) powering a full time alternator and using AC traction motors as the future.
The only battery required would be a 6 volt eveready to power the air starter.

So in summing up, yeah I see electric cars as taking over the world. The one question I have is what supplies the electricity? I just don't see batteries as the long term answer.

[Strange1]

Using renewables to generate Hydrogen would be the ultimate way to go. It allows you densely store the energy and transport it, as well as conventional ~3 minute refueling.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by mik

Have you watched electric cars racing, it's the most boring thing you have seen, I'd rather have the f6 any day of the week.

Those who can't hear have no problems....hangups.

[Fordblue1000]

Interesting topic this one.

XBGS351, you asked about some costs of running these vehicles.

we have had a outlander plug in hybrid in our fleet of vehicles for our business for the last year.

we have also been pretty diligant in regards to cost per mile etc.

here are some facts.

we have travelled 13,500 klms.
we have used 167 litres in that time - 5 tank fills, soon average we had to fill up every 75 days or so. keep in mind the ICE motor will run every few days of use, regardless if it is needed or not.

we have travelled a total of 11960 klms on battery.

it consumes just under 4Kw of 240v power per recharge, which, depending on weather temp it gives us a range of between 60 to 80 Klms.

we do not use the factory charger, instead, we use a more specific charger profile than supplied. (the factory one will take about 8 hrs to recharge, ours takes about 2-3 hrs off a 15A, 240V supply)

so in general, it costs us about $3.50 per recharge to get us between 60 to 80 Klms. Ambient temp, driving habbits and speed are the 3 major determining factors to the distance available. 95% of the vehicle driving is in the metro area.

yes, there is alot of instant torque available, but that will rapidly drain the batteries. average accelleration is better for longer travel distance. also use of options like re-generative braking makes a big difference too.

Costs are below.

petrol for 1600 Klms - $217
Battery recharge for 11,900 Klms - $738

unfortunately the PHEV does not allow for fast charging, this however will be available in the next model apparently.

while there is alot of talk about the Tesla, they are clearly known as the electric vehicle market leader. look at a few facts about this vehicle as well. whilst their range is high, that is because of a massive battery pack that carry. almost more than double what the rest of the manufacturer's provide. their charging systems demand high current to recharge their cars. all of the big players in the vehicle manufacturing industry are working together to ensure that a good package of recharging is delivered to the end user, as well as the energy grid. in places like Amsterdam, regarded as the electric vehuicle capitol of the world, charging systems all communicate with each other, to ensure there is not too much demand placed on the grid at one time. they will change their charge profile to ensure the end user has a full charge at the end of cycle, say overnight. (all comms via on-board GSM communications). Their electricity inftrastructure can accomadate for this demand. most of the big players all use the same style of plug for their charging systems, and are compatible across a wide range of manufacturer's.

Tesla, is ignorant of the auto industry. they do what they want, and not really follow any real protocols, hence their cars are not compatible with existing charging infrastructure like the rest of the world. think Android vs apple and you get the picture.

it is wondered if Australian conditons can allow for so many vehicles charging at once - say after work. that answer i do not know, and could be one of the many reasons why there is no real push from the Gov for going electric, as they are afraid that the grids will not be able to handle too many vehicles charging at once.

we have had great mileage from our PHEV,averaging only 1.17 Litres per 100Klms, but that is not the real cost. the real cost would be something like $7.80 per 100 Klms. Not too bad for a full sized SUV.

time will only tell what is the best future for OZ. i personally doubt that full electric will really be the future here. we have all got too much 'range anxiety' for full electrics. the PHEV style of vehicle is much more suited, as we can easily drive across the country, without the need for worrying about where to next fill up, as we can always use the ICE if need be. Hybrids? well they are proving popular, as their cost is much less than a PHEV, or full electric.


hope this helps answer some questions!!!

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Fordblue1000

we have had great mileage from our PHEV,averaging only 1.17 Litres per 100Klms, but that is not the real cost. the real cost would be something like $7.80 per 100 Klms. Not too bad for a full sized SUV

Is the outlander really "full sized" though?

The sums make it clear to me that they still have a long way to improve before the technology becomes economically attractive.

It is only 2c per 100km more expensive to run my LPi FG, and I know which one I prefer. That cost is using the average (from receipts) of 14L/100km that it has achieved over 5 years & 185,000km, and with LPG at 55.9 when my wife filled it yesterday.

You could argue the cost of LPG will increase (and a few years back it skyrocketed) but the price of electricity is also rapidly rising. And then there will be the incredible cost of battery replacement, when traditional fossil fuelled cars would only require a fraction of that spend, if at all, to live beyond the 10 or so years you may get from the battery.

But it is a start, and I know someone with the PHEV outlander who has even less use of the petrol motor, but they've only done 2000km in it in 4 months. It will appeal to the short-tripper, who can still use the same vehicle on an interstate trip, without needing to resort to charging stops, or hire something else.

[mik]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day mik and all....Fords first real dabble here..http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/trim/electric/ What do you think ?
Cheers Rod...

Hi Roddy , sorry for the late reply mate , and Hi gang .

The little focus seems to make more sense to me in a way .
Cars like the tesla are probably good for some people in the right position ,

but I`m still very much on the fence as to how green they actually are , to have any range comparable to a internal combustion car you have to have a huge battery pack , then you have to have a very strongly built and heavy built car to support the batteries , of which it seems cost as much as a small economy car should the need to replace them anyway at some time up the road ,
big car needs big driveline/suspension/tyres that all cost $$$$ to service and maintain .
So i`m still very skeptical about how economical they really are , people think these are simple just like a remote control car and as such will never wear out and cost nothing to run , personally to use the American term , i think a lot of people are drinking the Koolaide .

as far as cost goes for electric cars , if you already have a solar system that can charge the EV up on the cheap it may make economic sense , but when you pay a lot of money for vehicle that technically is less versatile in the true sense , and you have to put in extra infrastructure to charge the thing and you poop out an awful lot of macca meals over a period of time to pay for the thing ,
straight away in my eyes its lost its green credentials ,
and the economic benefit went down the toilet bowl with the Digested and excreted macca`s .... you know what i mean ?
a car like the little focus or a nissan leaf , for me as an old fart pensioner , i could make that work as a daily commuter in the big smoke because they dont cost a lot to start with , and i would keep my old petrol banger for doing duties electric cars cant do ..
On the other hand when you can buy a very economical and reliable 3 or 4 cylinder car with a huge touring range for $15000 and you can just hop in it and drive it , why would you change to the alternative ..