Diesel is nearly dead?

[xr8cam]

Europe to ban diesel fueled cars in major cities as early as 2018. Headlines all over the media the other day.It has always suprised me how quickly diesel took off. I always thought the popularity was to do with these cars being cheaper to make, easy torque, little R&D, all the reasons car co's would market these as the next big thing. Now it appears that diesel is not the clean fuel we have been led to believe it to be, with VW fudging results a while back & plenty of conjecture to be found. It seems that because diesel emits more pollution in operation but less over time due to less fuel use, is not all its cracked up to be. Will be interesting to watch what the states & here do. There could be a hell of a lot of high end european diesels & turbo 4's going very cheaply sooner than we think. I wonder what the car sales folk are telling potential buyers?

[chevypower]

I still like the way they drive. I thought the Astra TDis were fun to drive with the manual gearbox. I love my 6.6L diesel, it's just so effortless. I think the only thing that can really replace it is full electric or FCV. Eventually, they probably will. Just look at the Nikola One.

[SumoDog68]

If Europe was to ban diesel are from major cities that would take half of their cars out of circulation. Diesel car ownership is massive in Europe.

[b0son]

And yet, in a big heavy car, diesel just destroys the equivalent petrol in terms of economy when you throw stop/start in and/or remove freeway. Its no contest. Yes, the diesel has a lot less power, but even lower power petrols seem to use way more fuel around town than a diesel. Considering traffic only ever seems to get worse, it's very likely I'll be shopping for a diesel next time.

[xr8cam]

I should point out I have nothing against diesel cars or the people that buy them. I have posted this because I thought it was typical of governments going off half cocked and I thought a lot of people would be interested.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Turbo petrol engines have come a long way. They now make good torque down low, have little to no lag and increase fuel efficiency through downsizing the engine capacity while still making decent power. So no need for diesels in small cars now.

Not gonna kill off diesel SUVs or trucks any time soon though.

[blackf6]

Diesel is dead. Pull the other one mate. Farms, trucks, trains. The actual machines that keep this country fed, shelves stocked, freight moved. All run on diesel. Diesel cars were only ever a yuppie type fad anyway.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by blackf6

Diesel is dead. Pull the other one mate. Farms, trucks, trains. The actual machines that keep this country fed, shelves stocked, freight moved. All run on diesel. Diesel cars were only ever a yuppie type fad anyway.

Uh - what about ships- the things that move coal, food, products between countries across the world.

[EBSXR6]

A mate works for BMW and he was told the proposed next Euro emissions was going to be very difficult pass with a diesel.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by blackf6

Diesel is dead. Pull the other one mate. Farms, trucks, trains. The actual machines that keep this country fed, shelves stocked, freight moved. All run on diesel. Diesel cars were only ever a yuppie type fad anyway.

G'day...I totally agree . As a classic example rail freight across the country is essential . It's way cheaper per tonne than road freight..The mining diesel electrics locomotives upwards of 6000 horse power ie BHP Billiton , Rio Tinto , Hammersley Iron are phenomenal and state based general freight services are hugely important to us all.. Many passenger services too.. The the iconic Road Trains , Then the bus services , vast earth moving needs to keep the country ticking along..
Will be interesting to see where Europe heads on the passenger car bans re diesel ... For anyone interested here's a link to a vid on a world record shift of almost 100,000 tonnes a few years ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZgodWbEuG4 ...Imagine getting caught at the crossing on this one if you were late for work...Cheers Rod...

[simon varley]

ships - no emissions legislation.
trucks - 'relatively' easier to meet emissions on a big low revving engine
cars/suvs - much as I love the torque, chucking 10 grands worth of after treatment on them to meet standards doesn't make any sense.

they are going....

and most Eu major cities already have some form of car restriction. banning private diesels won't impact many people too much, especially with the good public transport network in most Eu cities.

[simon varley]

a relatively few commercial vehicles can afford to be more polluting individually than millions of passenger cars. Once passenger car diesels have gone we may perhaps see no further tightening of commercial emission legislation

[CyberWasp]

We don't have to sit here and cop what direction other countries decide to take the motor vehicle industry in.
We have our own motor vehicle industry here, and we can make what ever we damn well............hang on a second...

[Ben73]

In cars, yes.
In everything bigger, no.

I am sort of sick of driving diesel every day. I think Ill get a petrol next time. But as a fan of 4x4, I'm not sure how that will work.

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day...I totally agree . As a classic example rail freight across the country is essential . It's way cheaper per tonne than road freight..The mining diesel electrics locomotives upwards of 6000 horse power ie BHP Billiton , Rio Tinto ,

I once figured out that diesel electric coal trains are more fuel efficient per tonne than a Prius.

It's also amazing how far trains can roll once they get going if the terrain is right. I know around here there is one part when a 10,000 tonne train can roll for about 30kms of a 40km long section. That's just free momentum.

[Yellow_Festiva]

I think this is being looked at the wrong way. They are great engines other than the pollution, so rather than ban them solve the pollution problem.

Some sort of filter on the exhaust???

When I was in uni Mr Dyson himself gave us a lecture. He told us he had put forward proposals to the roads people of a filtration system for the tunnel exhaust stacks (all the talk on the media at the time).

They had developed a filtration system that could filter cigarette smoke from the air!

So, why not just work out a way to build a filter into future cars?

Or is that too simplistic a solution?

[Deo]

Originally Posted by Ben73

a 10,000 tonne train can roll for about 30kms of a 40km long section.

That'd be in either direction then?


Sent from my GTi-9305 using bloody Tapatalk

[xr8cam]

Even though I put a ? mark after the statement and it is a story about European cities, most miss the point and become aggressive. Read whats in front of you people and try to remember someone else's post is not a personal attack.

[383hq]

1. WHO changed diesel exhaust fumes rating from Probable to Proven carcinogenic.
2. the ban on diesel cars would only affect new sales, most likely because of the legal ramifications from 1 ? very unlikely it would be a retrospective law for current reg cars
3. Diesel-Electric locomotives are cheap because of the electric part - which is the same reason the TGV's and bullet trains are very economical at 180-217mph compared to all other forms of moving a thousand people or so at a time.

having said all of that, I find my diesel banger a good thing in the country.

[superyob]

Isn't the current diesel debate about the efficient way it's combusted in a common rail diesel? Older diesels with jerk type injector pumps and sooty exhausts posed no health risk to the human body, but modern diesels produce such fine residue that it is capable of passing through the lungs and into the bloodstream. As is my understanding...

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I think this is being looked at the wrong way. They are great engines other than the pollution, so rather than ban them solve the pollution problem.

Some sort of filter on the exhaust???

When I was in uni Mr Dyson himself gave us a lecture. He told us he had put forward proposals to the roads people of a filtration system for the tunnel exhaust stacks (all the talk on the media at the time).

They had developed a filtration system that could filter cigarette smoke from the air!

So, why not just work out a way to build a filter into future cars?

Or is that too simplistic a solution?

Like a Diesel Particulate Filter that is on many diesels now?

[xr8cam]

Originally Posted by Ben73

In cars, yes.
In everything bigger, no.

I am sort of sick of driving diesel every day. I think Ill get a petrol next time. But as a fan of 4x4, I'm not sure how that will work.



I once figured out that diesel electric coal trains are more fuel efficient per tonne than a Prius.

It's also amazing how far trains can roll once they get going if the terrain is right. I know around here there is one part when a 10,000 tonne train can roll for about 30kms of a 40km long section. That's just free momentum.

What do you think has been the "cheaper" car to own in your personal experience. Diesel or petrol? Factor in all costs.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by xr8cam

Europe to ban diesel fueled cars in major cities as early as 2018. Headlines all over the media the other day.It has always suprised me how quickly diesel took off. I always thought the popularity was to do with these cars being cheaper to make, easy torque, little R&D, all the reasons car co's would market these as the next big thing. Now it appears that diesel is not the clean fuel we have been led to believe it to be, with VW fudging results a while back & plenty of conjecture to be found. It seems that because diesel emits more pollution in operation but less over time due to less fuel use, is not all its cracked up to be. Will be interesting to watch what the states & here do. There could be a hell of a lot of high end european diesels & turbo 4's going very cheaply sooner than we think. I wonder what the car sales folk are telling potential buyers?

Explain cheaper to make?
also banning in all major City's wont affect too many people that don't drive in any city.

[mcnews]

Diesels are cheap to run until something goes wrong.

[simon varley]

not really much different to many petrol cars these days. both have turbos, catalysts, particulate filters, high pressure pumps, injectors....

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Like a Diesel Particulate Filter that is on many diesels now?

No,

Something that is more serviceable and cheaper to maintain.

Modern cars with a DPF are still posing a problem with emissions so it has to be something on top of what is being currently used.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

No,

Something that is more serviceable and cheaper to maintain.

Modern cars with a DPF are still posing a problem with emissions so it has to be something on top of what is being currently used.

LPG as part of the mixture

[Paull]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Uh - what about ships- the things that move coal, food, products between countries across the world.

Ships don't run on diesel, they use heavy fuel oil (HFO)

Originally Posted by simon varley

ships - no emissions legislation.

Wrong, ships at sea have to comply with MARPOL

[Junkyard-Dog]

Bunker fuel is basically just thick, less distilled diesel fuel though.

[xr8cam]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Bunker fuel is basically just thick, less distilled diesel fuel though.

Sorry to jump off topic, that dog in your photo. Do you know anything about it?

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by xr8cam

Sorry to jump off topic, that dog in your photo. Do you know anything about it?

Nothing, other than the fact that he is my animal spirit.