Recommend an aircon regas in Darwin

[Crazy Dazz]

Daughter's car needs a regas.
Shouldn't be that hard, but so far everyone she has contacted has tried to have a lend.

[ea90gl]

What is your idea of a "lend"?

If the air con system is out of refrigerant this must mean that a leak is present in the system.

This then also means time must be spent finding the leak.

This then also means that once the leak has been found it must be rectified in order to be re-charged with the appropriate amount of refrigerant.

This then also means associated parts etc are required to repair the leak.

This then also means that once all rectification works are performed, the system must be evacuated and pressure tested to ensure all is well to introduce new refrigerant into the system to ensure a long term hassle free repair.

All of the above cannot be performed for a relatively cheap amount.

You can continue searching for a back-yarder who performs the cheap dodgy top-up and go but you will be wasting your money since the air con will ultimately fail in a short amount of time.

The poor man pays twice so be prepared to spend a decent amount to have the air con works sorted out to a high standard.

[Mechan1k]

The refridgerent prices are not cheap either.

One of our forum members in Vic does this sort of work a lot. Some vehicles, when it gets to the stage the A/C may need a regas ... you usually find the receiver/dryer needs replacing ... also some vehicles the compressors have had it (V6 commodes are common for this) .... this usually comes to a $1000 bill for parts and labour. It doesn't take much at all for prices to get this big for an A/C re-gas.

[chevypower]

You should see if you can find somebody who uses this stuff. https://hychill.com.au
Propane-based refrigerant alternative to R134a. I have been told it's cheaper, plus is as effective as the older R12 refrigerant without all the harmful environmental side effects. Remember how R12 felt ice cold even on a really hot day? Being in Darwin, this might be what you are looking for.

[nuthin' fancy]

I just had my EL Monty regassed for $165. How much are you being asked to pay?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by chevypower

You should see if you can find somebody who uses this stuff. https://hychill.com.au
Propane-based refrigerant alternative to R134a. I have been told it's cheaper, plus is as effective as the older R12 refrigerant without all the harmful environmental side effects. Remember how R12 felt ice cold even on a really hot day? Being in Darwin, this might be what you are looking for.

Hychill is good but it sometimes plays a Houdini act and disappears from a fully sealed system.

[ratter]

Hychill and Minus 30, both LPG derivatives and both can lead to compressor damage in some cars, infact no compressor supplier will warrant a new compressor if either of these gases are used.

[uniacidz]

Originally Posted by chevypower

You should see if you can find somebody who uses this stuff. https://hychill.com.au
Propane-based refrigerant alternative to R134a. I have been told it's cheaper, plus is as effective as the older R12 refrigerant without all the harmful environmental side effects. Remember how R12 felt ice cold even on a really hot day? Being in Darwin, this might be what you are looking for.

Just flammable from what i heard, hence why not many stock it

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by chevypower

You should see if you can find somebody who uses this stuff. https://hychill.com.au
Propane-based refrigerant alternative to R134a. I have been told it's cheaper, plus is as effective as the older R12 refrigerant without all the harmful environmental side effects. Remember how R12 felt ice cold even on a really hot day? Being in Darwin, this might be what you are looking for.

In Ambient temps > 30dec C, it does hold it's own much better than R134a, which drops off significantly, the older falcon workshop manual performance charts back this up. I've run Hychill a few times during 38 - 40 degrees, and it still cools not too bad.

Originally Posted by Trump

Hychill is good but it sometimes plays a Houdini act and disappears from a fully sealed system.

Explain ?

Originally Posted by ratter

Hychill and Minus 30, both LPG derivatives and both can lead to compressor damage in some cars, infact no compressor supplier will warrant a new compressor if either of these gases are used.

Minus 30 is Hychill, along with Minus 40/50, etc. I've read this a few times myself, and I have to wonder why when the compressor head temps and pressures are lower with Hychill - we've noticed this to be true on two BA taxi's, one with Hychill, the other with R134a. The gas carries the oil through for lubrication - most comp failures are from lack of lubrication (low oil or gas), so I can't really see why a change of gas would be the direct cause.

The battle always rages on Hychill V R134a, etc, with regard to flammability, system friendly, etc. R12 was supposedly removed due to being a CFC, it's replacement R134a is a HFC (both not Ozone friendly). Hychill is a HC, so can be released to the atmosphere, and as I understand it, you don't require a licence to use it, so I guess it provides a danger to this exclusive 'closed shop' area.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by snap0964

In Ambient temps > 30dec C, it does hold it's own much better than R134a, which drops off significantly, the older falcon workshop manual performance charts back this up. I've run Hychill a few times during 38 - 40 degrees, and it still cools not too bad.
Explain ?
Minus 30 is Hychill, along with Minus 40/50, etc. I've read this a few times myself, and I have to wonder why when the compressor head temps and pressures are lower with Hychill - we've noticed this to be true on two BA taxi's, one with Hychill, the other with R134a. The gas carries the oil through for lubrication - most comp failures are from lack of lubrication (low oil or gas), so I can't really see why a change of gas would be the direct cause.

The battle always rages on Hychill V R134a, etc, with regard to flammability, system friendly, etc. R12 was supposedly removed due to being a CFC, it's replacement R134a is a HFC (both not Ozone friendly). Hychill is a HC, so can be released to the atmosphere, and as I understand it, you don't require a licence to use it, so I guess it provides a danger to this exclusive 'closed shop' area.

A system designed around R12/R134 may be porous enough for the Hychill to leak out. This is because the molecules are smaller than the R12/R134 counterparts.

[ea90gl]

I personally believe most refrigerants are much of a muchness these days.

I only deal with residential/commercial air conditioning however the exact same principles apply across the board between this and automotive air conditioning.

The older R-12 was the equivalent of R22, the change to R134a was the equivalent to the change over to R410a and now we are dealing with R32.

I have read that DuPont have the rights to producing certain refrigerants and as soon as a patent runs out, they produce a newer and better refrigerant etc to keep the ball rolling. Not entirely sure about the finer details.

From personal experience, all refrigerants generally perform in a similar way (however of course do come with different hazards/environmental impact) and you would be hard pressed to find a massive difference unless of course all appropriate measuring devices have been put in place etc.

My old BA wagon emptied it's factory charge of R134a due to a poor weld on one of the pipes just under an access port. Problem was rectified and the system was re-charged with Hychill. To be honest, I cannot pick any difference in regards to temperature drops across the evaporator. This was performed about 2 years ago and now my apprentice is using the wagon and all is still fine to this day. I found it interesting that basically half of the charge is required for Hychill to perform the same job (350g) as opposed to the 650g of factory charge for R134a. I suppose due to this and the whole licence issue, there is good reason that many automotive air conditioning mobs are utilising the Hychill product.

If we could find the same drop in for residential/commercial air conditioning I would also try jump on the bandwagon.

Interesting that the Hychill can deplete out of the system even though the system is free of leaks due to line materials, that is definitely worth taking into consideration

[Gee-dog]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

If we could find the same drop in for residential/commercial air conditioning I would also try jump on the bandwagon.

There is - it's called Hychill Minus 50

[LukaPuka]

Why does your daughters car need a "regas". It is illegal for a technician to just put refrigerant into a car with a leak with out rectifying said leak. They get massive fines if caught.
You are better off going to a licensed technician and getting your problem solved not just bandaged.
I never understood why people think "oh the A/c works it's just out of gas". It obviously has a failure somewhere and putting refrigerant into it isn't going to fix anything.

And for using Hychill or any hydrocarbon refrigerant to save some coin it is flammable. During a leak or a car accident it can be very dangerous even though people say it isn't. Watch the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtowzVzl_4

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by Trump

A system designed around R12/R134 may be porous enough for the Hychill to leak out. This is because the molecules are smaller than the R12/R134 counterparts.

Over what time frame ? All my cars run Hychill, the oldest for nearly five yrs now, I haven't noticed it to be any worse for cooling in high temps than when I first charged it. R134a will certainly escape through rubber A/C hoses over time, so I'd expect other refrigerants would too.

Originally Posted by ea90gl

I have read that DuPont have the rights to producing certain refrigerants and as soon as a patent runs out, they produce a newer and better refrigerant etc to keep the ball rolling. Not entirely sure about the finer details.

It is a sore point that Dupont have the majority of market share.
I have been told that R134a does contain some R12 as it's cooling efficiency was very poor on first introduction, might be BS, as I don't have any solid evidence.

Originally Posted by ea90gl

My old BA wagon emptied it's factory charge of R134a due to a poor weld on one of the pipes just under an access port. Problem was rectified and the system was re-charged with Hychill. To be honest, I cannot pick any difference in regards to temperature drops across the evaporator. This was performed about 2 years ago and now my apprentice is using the wagon and all is still fine to this day. I found it interesting that basically half of the charge is required for Hychill to perform the same job (350g) as opposed to the 650g of factory charge for R134a. I suppose due to this and the whole licence issue, there is good reason that many automotive air conditioning mobs are utilising the Hychill product.

< 30 degs, you won't feel any difference, as the temp climbs, I've found Hychill will cool better, and the compressor doesn't seem to work as hard as with R134a.
It has a better expansion rate from liquid to gas state. Hychill quote a third by weight, but in practice, I've found you usually need around between a third and a half of the R134a charge, particularly if you're going off sight glass bubbling.

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by LukaPuka

And for using Hychill or any hydrocarbon refrigerant to save some coin it is flammable. During a leak or a car accident it can be very dangerous even though people say it isn't. Watch the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtowzVzl_4

This argument does come up often.
The video comments are a good read, R600a/R290 aren't exactly the same as LPG Butane. IIRC R134a and refrigerant oil together does have a degree of flammability (correct me if I'm wrong). The only part of A/C system in the cabin is the evaporator (low press side), a leak isn't exactly the same as a high side compressor hose blowing. Whatever refrigerant used mixed in air in the cabin, I'd be more concerned with petrol or LPG leaks.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

The poor man pays twice so be prepared to spend a decent amount to have the air con works sorted out to a high standard.

I have just sent you an invoice for $1,000, which obviously you will be happy to pay, despite the fact that I am giving you nothing of benefit in return. Because in your view paying less than the worst thief demands would mean paying twice.

It is certainly true that one seldom receive more than they paid for, but its equally true that the unwary and gullible frequently receive far less.

[ea90gl]

Originally Posted by Gee-dog

There is - it's called Hychill Minus 50

That might be true but good luck getting things approved through all of the red tape etc.

The newer R32 equipped units pose a very very very slight flammability issue which all manufacturers have probably spent millions of dollars trying to get approved etc. R410a was basically a mixture of of R32 and R25? which the latter suppressed the flammability of utilisising R32 alone.

When I speak of flammability of R32, it has been shown that a room full of the refrigerant will make a currently burning candle slightly increase its flame until all the R32 eventually burns off. Manufacturers have gone through so much to be able to equip their units with this refrigerant, I could only imagine what it would be like for them to equip their units with a refrigerant such as Hychill that can certainly go bang in the worst case scenarios.

[ea90gl]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I have just sent you an invoice for $1,000, which obviously you will be happy to pay, despite the fact that I am giving you nothing of benefit in return. Because in your view paying less than the worst thief demands would mean paying twice.

It is certainly true that one seldom receive more than they paid for, but its equally true that the unwary and gullible frequently receive far less.

Not all technicians are thieves mate as you may possibly see it as, there are many who are looking to make a quick dollar to temporarily satisfy the customer and also probably offer no warranty on their own work at all. That basically means that after the works have been performed for the cheapest amount, once any issues become present they do not want to hear about it and you will be left in the dark.These sorts of technicians are the real thieves regardless of what you may think.

IF the more "expensive and robbery works" have been performed to a high standard, you should not have any issues at all and should not have to fork out anything else over the long run. By accepting this you are definitely offering something in return - the fact that you can see past things and will be happy with the works which also means you would most likely spread the word of good business practices ultimately creating more work for the proper technicians out there.

Can I ask again, what do you think "having a lend" is in regards to repairing your daughter's car? If you can let us all know what the issue is and what you have been quoted on we can all possibly help you in regards to making the right decision.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by snap0964

Over what time frame ? All my cars run Hychill, the oldest for nearly five yrs now, I haven't noticed it to be any worse for cooling in high temps than when I first charged it. R134a will certainly escape through rubber A/C hoses over time, so I'd expect other refrigerants would too.

You'll know within half an hour if it's trying to escape.

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by Trump

A system designed around R12/R134 may be porous enough for the Hychill to leak out. This is because the molecules are smaller than the R12/R134 counterparts. You'll know within half an hour if it's trying to escape.

Where are you getting your info from? And you don't give any detail about the system leak. Gas escaping in half an hour you would have to have a system leak.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Trump

A system designed around R12/R134 may be porous enough for the Hychill to leak out. This is because the molecules are smaller than the R12/R134 counterparts.

If any material is porous then obviously a manufacturing fault & should be replaced otherwise it is a seal fault which should be checked out.
I'm sure a gas dye will eventually locate the problem.

[ratter]

Automotive systems have always been known for leaching through rubber hoses etc and the main reason that run of rubber hose for the air con system is kept to short lengths where possible, this would not be a quick leak though.

[LukaPuka]

It is inevitable that a small amount of r134a per year will escape. I will serivice a car that has no leaks and has never been serviced In it's previous 10+ year life but does not have its original full charge. It's lost in tiny amounts through O'rings and flex joints over time.