Dirty Petrol

[au350hp]

Well folks, Australia officially has the worlds dirtiest fuel. Three times the amount of sulphur in our fuel compared to the rest of the world. Most countries have banned a whole bunch of undesirable chemicals & additives used in manufacturing, but good old Australia is happy to keep the codes & laws from the 1970's. It is hard to put a price on the damage caused by the rubbish we run our cars on, but high sulphur content kills motors long term. PPM levels for 91ron are 150ppm. Our 'clean' 95 & 98 ron fuels have 50ppm where as European fuel is 10ppm. We desperately need to refine our own fuels again instead of sending it to Singapore for refining & buying it back to add octane boosters. Many car builders will not be releasing certain motors here for this reason. Surely there is a market for real quality fuel?

[Tom Tucker]

Sulfur is a lubricant, and is good for motors. It's bad for the environment...

[Bossxr8]

The reason is because our refineries can’t afford the costs associated with making low sulfur fuels, not cause of the imported fuel.

Our refineries are dinosaurs. The government needs to make 95 the standard fuel and get rid of 91. It costs the refiners 2-3 c extra to make over 91, but they charge up to 15c extra. The issue will be them not wanting to give up that extra profit.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The reason is because our refineries can’t afford the costs associated with making low sulfur fuels, not cause of the imported fuel.

Our refineries are dinosaurs. The government needs to make 95 the standard fuel and get rid of 91. It costs the refiners 2-3 c extra to make over 91, but they charge up to 15c extra. The issue will be them not wanting to give up that extra profit.

do we have any refineries left??

[Itsme]

When we do get better quality fuel watch all the sooks start complaining about higher fuel prices.

[jmack]

thats the problem we are paying top dollar now for crap

[commodorenutt]

Exactly. Even some 3rd world countries don't have 91.
95 is the base fuel in just about every 1st world nation.

They'll use it as an excuse to shut the few remaining refineries, and convert them over to tank farms, just like they've done with so many others.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by jmack

thats the problem we are paying top dollar now for crap

Don't believe what wheels magazine quotes all the time.

[au350hp]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Don't believe what wheels magazine quotes all the time.

When something piques my interest, I read & learn as much as I need to make an informed opinion. I read pro's & con's and the good & bad about whatever the topic may be. I never take one persons version of events or information on something without looking at all the facts. Regarding Burnz question, there is a petroleum refinery in Kwinana,a few miles south of Perth, that produces for the local market. There are a number of sites up the WA coast that are either being mined or exploration is underway.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

When we do get better quality fuel watch all the sooks start complaining about higher fuel prices.

Your happy with the price we currently pay for fuel?

[suttoo]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

Your happy with the price we currently pay for fuel?

I just got back from Ireland, paid the equivalent of $2.00 per litre for diesel, unleaded was very similar.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by suttoo

I just got back from Ireland, paid the equivalent of $2.00 per litre for diesel, unleaded was very similar.

Yup,same here,motorways in the UK £1.38 per litre,but drive OFF the motorways & it drops to around £1.18 per litre.(diesel & petrol.)But in saying that, Ireland is awesome! Cheers

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

Your happy with the price we currently pay for fuel?

Well from my financial position I'm not complaining but like anyone else like to pay least as possible for any goods, who would not.

You want better quality fuel well be prepared to pay for it as most whinge about prices.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by burnz

do we have any refineries left??

Yes. The one in perth and the shell/viva refinery here in geelong. There may be others but they are the 2 i know of.

[TICKFORD220]

Just don't use 91 fuel if its 3 times as bad for the environment,problem solved.
People wont spend more on fuel to help the environment,they would rather save money.
Most people would rather save a few bucks and listen to their motor rattle its head off under acceleration lol(mainly 4 cyl cars I hear with bad pinging issues)
Apparently regular unleaded is about 70-75 % of australias petrol sales and people go on about saving the environment bahaha

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yes. The one in perth and the shell/viva refinery here in geelong. There may be others but they are the 2 i know of.

Lytton (QLD) is still hanging on by a thread isn't it?
It, and the 2 you mention are the only 3 I know of that are still operating (or were, recently).

[MS33LU]

Mobil in Altona is still operating. There is only four refineries left in Oz.

[stock1991]

Kwinana refinery is the most beautiful in the country, on Leighton beach

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by Roostercam

Most countries have banned a whole bunch of undesirable chemicals & additives used in manufacturing, but good old Australia is happy to keep the codes & laws from the 1970's.

Really, so are you saying our petrol has lead in it like it did in the 1970s?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by MrZ

Really, so are you saying our petrol has lead in it like it did in the 1970s?

Don't be too hard on Roostercam, he has his wires mixed up.
I remember when we changed from lead petrol to unleaded how we were told stories how clean this new petrol would be for the environment, now we are being told it is dirty petrol.....Go figure!

[Maka]

Sulfur in Australia petrol
With thanks to - RACV RoyalAuto Magazine

https://www.racv.com.au/membership/m...ia-petrol.html


The quality of petrol sold in Australia is at the centre of a fierce debate, set to intensify, about future engine technology, emissions regulations and CO2 targets.

While diesel sold in Australia has no more than 10 parts per million of sulfur – considered best practice globally – petrol has much higher levels; as much as 150 parts per million in regular and 50 parts per million in premium.

Mandate lower sulfur levels
Car companies, through the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries, are lobbying the federal government to mandate lower sulfur levels in petrol to allow the latest clean-burning, fuel- saving engines to be sold in Australia.

There are already many cars on sale in Australia meeting the stricter, yet-to-be-mandated Euro 6 emissions standards – predominantly cars sourced from European brands – but the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries says they are not running as efficiently and cleanly as they could if petrol quality was improved to the lower 10 parts per million sulfur levels.

Australia being left behind
“If you impose Euro 6 without the [better quality] fuel … you impose all the costs on consumers without getting the environmental benefits in reality,” says FCAI chief executive Tony Weber, who adds that Australia is in danger of being left behind in a high tech race towards cleaner and more fuel efficient vehicles if fuel quality is not improved.

“Advanced research is underpinned by 10 parts per million sulfur. There’s no point supplying those products to markets that don’t have the appropriate fuel.”

The oil retailers are in no hurry to upgrade their refineries to improve the sulfur content of petrol, arguing the benefits are eroded by increased costs – both in upgrading refineries and in refining the fuel to tighter tolerances – saying costs would be passed on to consumers.

No net benefit
“The reason Australia has not moved is because it has been shown on a number of occasions there is no net community benefit of lower sulfur levels in petrol,” says Paul Barrett, the CEO of the Australian Institute of Petroleum.

“A number of the government reports have shown that Euro 6 vehicles can run on premium unleaded petrol.”

Henry O’Clery, the director of Future Climate Australia, a not-for-profit environmental organisation, says Euro 6 vehicles can run on the lower quality fuel available in Australia, although he says it’s only a matter of time until stricter fuel standards will be required.

“Ultimately we should go that way,” Mr O’Clery says. “But it doesn’t matter in terms of this argument about emissions standards now because you could run the same emissions standards as they have in Europe right now with the fuel we’ve got without any problem.”

Missing out on best fuel efficiency
But, Mr O’Clery says, because of the high sulfur levels in petrol here, many car buyers are missing out on getting the best engines with the best fuel efficiency.

“The powertrain technology is usually obsolete,” he says, except from manufacturers that don’t have two production streams – one with the old and another with the new engines.

“Continual review of fuel quality standards would enable vehicle manufacturers to ensure that the most modern engine technologies are available to members,” Michael Case, RACV's manager vehicle engineering says.

RACV supports vehicle emission reduction measures
Tightening fuel-quality standards to reduce the sulfur content of petrol to match more stringent international standards will, he says, remove one of the barriers to high-technology low-emissions engines reaching Australia. Passenger vehicles contribute about 17 per cent of all emissions in Australia and, Mr Case says, RACV strongly supports measures to reduce vehicle emissions in proportion to other contributing sectors, so long as the costs of doing so don’t affect motorists in a negative way.

Written by Toby Hagon
June 01 2016

[GK]

The cost of the refinery upgrades (and probably then some) would be passed straight to us. Is Hagon serious? Is he honestly expecting oil companies to absorb huge costs for the common good?
Please!

[Tom Tucker]

I think the real issue is the lack of domestic refining capability. It's a fundamental government responsibility to ensure energy security. The argument that its too costly doesn't hold weight against national security. We produce a fair amount of feed stock that goes direct to SE Asia to be refined. It's a disgrace for an elleged economic heavyweight. We have the depth of a stagnant pond.

[commodorenutt]

It's not Toby Hagon saying it, he's only stating industry facts, and quoting 3 sources - an RACV person, an FCAI person, and some self-appointed, self-important climate change zealot.

Toby Hagon is one of the most accurate & decent automotive journalists in Australia.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by MS33LU

Mobil in Altona is still operating. There is only four refineries left in Oz.

That aligns with what is on wikipedia (coz it's always right ):

Australia
New South Wales

Kurnell Refinery (Caltex), 124,500 bbl/d (19,790 m3/d),[59] Botany Bay - closed in 2014 and converted to a terminal
Clyde Refinery (Royal Dutch Shell), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m3/d), Clyde - closed in 2012 and converted to a terminal
Matraville Refinery (Total), 45,000 bbl/d (7,200 m3/d), Matraville - closed in 1985

Victoria

Geelong Refinery (Vitol), 130,000 bbl/d (21,000 m3/d), Geelong
Altona Refinery (ExxonMobil), about 75,000 bbl/d (11,900 m3/d), Altona North (refinery reduced from 2 trains to 1 train between 2000–2004)
Westernport Refinery (BP), 35,000 bbl/d (5,600 m3/d), Crib Point - closed in 1984

Queensland

Bulwer Island Refinery (BP), Bulwer Island 90,000 bbl/d (14,000 m3/d), Nelson Complexity Index 7.21[6] - closed in 2015 and converted to a jet terminal
Lytton Refinery (Caltex), 104,000 bbl/d (16,500 m3/d), Lytton
Eromanga Refinery (IOR Energy), 1,200 bbl/d (190 m3/d), Eromanga, Queensland

South Australia

Port Stanvac Refinery (ExxonMobil), 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m3/d), Lonsdale - mothballed in 2003, closed in 2009; the 239 hectare site is being demolished and cleaned up through 2019

Western Australia

Kwinana Refinery (BP), Kwinana 138,000 bbl/d (21,900 m3/d), Nelson Complexity Index 7.70[6]

[roKWiz]

Matraville Refinery (Total), 45,000 bbl/d (7,200 m3/d), Matraville - closed in 1985

I can remember doing courier work for Clyde and Matraville back then, at the security gate they always demanded my dash cigarette lighter and once they demanded my girlfriend out of the car, there were no females allowed on site.

[au350hp]

Originally Posted by MrZ

Really, so are you saying our petrol has lead in it like it did in the 1970s?

A whole bunch of things does not equate to petrol & lead. Read the statement again.

[au350hp]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Don't be too hard on Roostercam, he has his wires mixed up.
I remember when we changed from lead petrol to unleaded how we were told stories how clean this new petrol would be for the environment, now we are being told it is dirty petrol.....Go figure!

No. I don't have my wires mixed up at all. The problem starts with comments that are misunderstood, used out of context and then there are those who think that somehow, your general comments are a personal attack....and no Officemanager, I am not refering to you, with regards Cameron.

[GasoLane]

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11469518