borrowing other companies bits - you be surprised!

jphanna · 16-12-2019, 06:44 PM

just had a huge shock few hours ago, as i picked up my one series 2008, for its first ever transmission service. i was quoted, (via phone call) for what they assumed was a german built trans. assuming a bmw brand, some other german manufacturer maybe?

i know these days manufactures swap/borrow parts from other manufacturers, the most gleaming example as a kid was Roll Royce using GM 3 speed Auto in their 70's models.

anyway......i got this. 'your car doesnt have the trans we expected, it has a CHEV trans which is identical to a VE/VF 6 speed.

we have seen them on 3 series before, but this is the first ONE series we have seen it on'

he also said, 'depending on where it was built will determine what trans you get'.

still getting over that one

eb2fairmont · 16-12-2019, 09:01 PM

Hopefully you didn’t get the alloytec as well

**aussiblue** · 16-12-2019, 10:09 PM

According to this they all had them: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299111

arronm · 16-12-2019, 10:22 PM

Cheap BMW and mercedes arent built in germany. Just povo packs like kingswood.

stock1991 · 16-12-2019, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

Cheap BMW and mercedes arent built in germany. Just povo packs like kingswood.

I believe Belmont is the base model, my first car was a HQ wagon

arronm · 16-12-2019, 11:14 PM

LUXURY. I had HD special...

Crazy Dazz · 17-12-2019, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jphanna

anyway......i got this. 'your car doesnt have the trans we expected, it has a CHEV trans which is identical to a VE/VF 6 speed.

Well no, not really.

I don't know any exact numbers, but I would imagine a lot of Car manufacturers don't make transmissions.
Just like they don't make the tyres, brakes, fuel injection, turbos, etc, etc, etc.

I'm almost certain that what you have is a ubiquitous ZF 6HP Transmission. Widely used by BMW, Jag, Bentley, and yes even in the Falcon, Terrirtory, and Commode.

Both Ford and GM licenced the ZF and made versions at their own plants.

IIRC Ford Australia mostly used ZF sourced versions, except for maybe one of the Territorys???

At the time your car was built, GM still maintained a plant in France that made the ZF under licence. And yes that version was used extensively by the BMW 1 & 3 series.

I don't pretend to understand all the BMW designations, but my rough understanding is that the less powerful models used the "GM" versions, but the more powerful used actual ZFs.

I wouldn't worry too much. Who knows, maybe the GM plant in France fixed some of the well known problems with the ZF??

**aussiblue** · 17-12-2019, 02:45 AM

Quote:

I'm almost certain that what you have is a ubiquitous ZF 6HP Transmission

It's very likely the GM 6L50 see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission Yes; the 6L50 is based on the ZF 6HP gearbox although it does have different gear sets and was made by GM.

happy1 · 17-12-2019, 05:40 AM

Hi,
Even if someone says 'identical', it isn't.
As per the article linked by aussieblue it is the GM 6L45 and 6L50 transmission.
But at least the casting of the 6L45 housing would be specific for BMW, the software would be BMW specific.
The Commodore would be using a 6L50 trans.

Cheers,

Dr Terry · 17-12-2019, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happy1

Hi,
Even if someone says 'identical', it isn't.
As per the article linked by aussieblue it is the GM 6L45 and 6L50 transmission.
But at least the casting of the 6L45 housing would be specific for BMW, the software would be BMW specific.
The Commodore would be using a 6L50 trans.

Cheers,

V6 Commodore used the 6L50E from Aug-2009 to Feb-2012 & then the 6L45E from Feb-2012 to the end of VF.

The V8 used the 6L80E.

Dr Terry

Vesper Martini · 17-12-2019, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

Cheap BMW and mercedes arent built in germany. Just povo packs like kingswood.

1 series E87 looks to be built in Leipzig Germany.

I expected to find it was built in US or Mexico like the early X5s

Vesper Martini · 17-12-2019, 02:16 PM

The 6L50 (and similar 6L45) is a 6-speed longitudinally-mounted automatic transmission produced by General Motors. It is very similar in design to the larger 6L80/6L90, and is produced at GM Powertrain plants in Toledo Ohio, Silao Mexico, and by the independent Punch Powerglide company in Strasbourg, France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission

Just Guessing but I recon the BMW would have the french trans, and the commodore might have the Mexican

Dr Terry · 17-12-2019, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

The 6L50 (and similar 6L45) is a 6-speed longitudinally-mounted automatic transmission produced by General Motors. It is very similar in design to the larger 6L80/6L90, and is produced at GM Powertrain plants in Toledo Ohio, Silao Mexico, and by the independent Punch Powerglide company in Strasbourg, France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission

Just Guessing but I recon the BMW would have the french trans, and the commodore might have the Mexican

^^^^ Correct.

The Punch Powerglide plant in Strasbourg was the old GM-Strasbourg factory where they developed the Trimatic etc.

Dr Terry

jphanna · 17-12-2019, 02:36 PM

thanks for the interesting info guys.

at least the trans...can be serviced and fixed by local guys based on that info.

as for the rest of the car, its simply a case of crossing all fingers, and hoping none of the endless warning lights come on, once the start button is pushed.

Ford17 · 17-12-2019, 06:29 PM

Some parts are used in exotics, which for cost reasons are derived from more mundane production cars.

The Nissan 300 ZX headlights were used for the Lamborghini Diablo (with a covering cap applied to hide the "Nissan" branding); Corolla taillights for the Lotus Esprit; Hella off-the-shelf lights on the Diablo again, as well as on other cars.

A couple of links with some more parts-sharing:

https://www.drivingline.com/articles...kely-vehicles/

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/10-...om-cheap-cars/

Yellow_Festiva · 18-12-2019, 05:05 PM

Tell me about it - every time I popped the bonnet of my Ford Festiva it had Kia parts everywhere!

roKWiz · 19-12-2019, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Tell me about it - every time I popped the bonnet of my Ford Festiva it had Kia parts everywhere!

Yes, similar in that every time I tilt the my Ford trader cabs, I see Mazda built Perkins diesels sitting under there.

Nothing has changed the old HQ-WB used GM/Chevy Impala - Camaro front sub frames and suspension.

Dr Terry · 19-12-2019, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Tell me about it - every time I popped the bonnet of my Ford Festiva it had Kia parts everywhere!

The Festiva was made by Kia in Korea under contract to Ford. Ford didn't build it.

Dr Terry

Dr Terry · 19-12-2019, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Nothing has changed the old HQ-WB used GM/Chevy Impala - Camaro front sub frames and suspension.

They are similar in design, they are the same company (GM) after all, but none of the parts will interchange.

Dr Terry

Yellow_Festiva · 19-12-2019, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

The Festiva was made by Kia in Korea under contract to Ford. Ford didn't build it.

Dr Terry

Yes... I know.

roKWiz · 19-12-2019, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

They are similar in design, they are the same company (GM) after all, but none of the parts will interchange.

Dr Terry

Years ago helped a Chevy guy bolt the complete sub frame and suspension straight from my HJ sedan into his Impala. ! Upper control A arms are the same with the only difference being later HZ Radial Tuned Suspension having the A arms pivot centred more than previous models.

Dr Terry · 19-12-2019, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Years ago helped a Chevy guy bolt the complete sub frame and suspension straight from my HJ sedan into his Impala. ! Upper control A arms are the same with the only difference being later HZ Radial Tuned Suspension having the A arms pivot centred more than previous models.

Are you sure it was an Impala ? They have a full chassis not a half sub-frame like the HJ. The Holden is more similar to a Chevelle.

The top arm is similar & may even bolt on as a complete arm, but the bushes are a different diameter to the Aussie ones so they don't fit.

Dr Terry

roKWiz · 19-12-2019, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Are you sure it was an Impala ? They have a full chassis not a half sub-frame like the HJ. The Holden is more similar to a Chevelle.

The top arm is similar & may even bolt on as a complete arm, but the bushes are a different diameter to the Aussie ones so they don't fit.

Dr Terry

Might have been a Chevelle but was a bolt up. Definitely just a sub frame not a full chassis

Crazy Dazz · 19-12-2019, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiblue

It's very likely the GM 6L50 see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission Yes; the 6L50 is based on the ZF 6HP gearbox although it does have different gear sets and was made by GM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Both Ford and GM licenced the ZF and made versions at their own plants.

At the time your car was built, GM still maintained a plant in France that made the ZF under licence. And yes that version was used extensively by the BMW 1 & 3 series.

I don't pretend to understand all the BMW designations, but my rough understanding is that the less powerful models used the "GM" versions, but the more powerful used actual ZFs.

Not sure which part of that you didn't understand?