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27-09-2024, 05:14 PM | #1 | ||
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As relatively clean burning renewable fuel, it was supposed to be the way of the future. Especially for a country like Australia with our huge fuel-security issues.
Yet it seems to have been forgotten about? Has everyone just assume that coal-powered battery vehicles will completely take over?
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27-09-2024, 05:24 PM | #2 | ||||
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We'd rather pay $2/L+ for fuel rather than look for viable alternatives because 'too hard basket'. Brazilian market has a huge E85 market, and all their vehicles are flexfuel capable. Quote:
Pretty sure we are capable of growing sugar cane in Australia and other grains capable of producing ethanol based fuels. Its amazing how third world corrupt and crime ridden shitholes like Brazil can do this sort of stuff, and we're incapable of anything that involves getting up off the couch because the AFL is on. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 27-09-2024 at 05:31 PM. |
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27-09-2024, 05:56 PM | #3 | ||
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It's still here - east coast, anyway, dunno about Perth though.
Manildra still make it here in Oz. https://www.manildra.com.au/product/ethanol/ Geelong has a couple of E85 bowsers still. E10 still available as a fuel, the 94 octane one was the best imo In the 2nd handy market there are quite a few cars that will run on E85 eg Some VEII, all VF MY14, some Craptivas if any still exist, Jeeps with Pentastar 3.6 roughly 2011-13. Those are factory flex fuel tunes. This group have conversion kits for all sorts of recent motors including GM Ecotec, hybrid Toyotas, and the Barra in some models: https://eflexfuel.com/en And there's a big tuning scene for it - of which I don't know much about. SO there remains a clean and green alternative using existing technology. **Bonus: Going old school, for the carby guys: https://journeytoforever.org/biofuel...nol_drane.html and for the moonshiners (be aware of gov rules in Australia) https://journeytoforever.org/books/e...ill-manual.cgi Good book: https://www.whiskeyhillfarms.com/alcohol-can-be-a-gas/ Take 20% of that ethanol and cut into vegetable oils for biodiesel https://www.scribd.com/document/2037...-the-Fuel-Tank SO If we are ever cut off by sea from our fuel imports, and cut off from further batteries and parts from our biggest electric car supplier - or just want green motoring, you know what to do. **Bonus: two other things we could do: NW shelf natural gas into CNG in diesels; Gippsland coal into Fischer Tropsch coal to diesel tech - if we were ever completely stuffed for liquid fuels.
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27-09-2024, 07:00 PM | #4 | |||
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27-09-2024, 07:46 PM | #5 | ||
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27-09-2024, 09:28 PM | #6 | ||
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A guy I worked with had a VE Series 2 3.6 and the first time he filled up with E85 the car ran very poorly.
He took it to the dealer, told them the symptoms only happened after filling up with E85. They drained the fuel system refilled it with ULP,, was advised to stay away from E85. |
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27-09-2024, 09:39 PM | #7 | ||
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27-09-2024, 10:00 PM | #8 | ||||
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Ford US has offered flexfuel vehicles to their market for decades, and same in the US market. |
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28-09-2024, 02:40 AM | #9 | |||
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LPG is a pet peev of mine, but I understand that you really need a completely different setup (eg ecoLPi) plus the infrastructure in servos, plus people are afraid of different bowser handles.
Biodiesel and HVO are too dependent on food oils. But cars capable of running on e85, instead of 98, should just be a matter of tune (that modern ECUs can handle in their sleep) and a few different components. IIRC weren't the latter Holden V6s designed to run on e85? Quote:
Northern Australia has heaps of potential, cos all your need is water and sun Plus ethanol can be brewed from just about anything, including wheat byproducts, vegetables, beets, etc.
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28-09-2024, 02:42 AM | #10 | |||
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28-09-2024, 06:14 AM | #11 | ||
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Whatever happened to Ethanol? The alco's drank it all.
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28-09-2024, 06:26 AM | #12 | ||
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[QUOTE=Franco Cozzo;6921293]Same as LPG, same as renewable diesels, and HVO.
We'd rather pay $2/L+ for fuel rather than look for viable alternatives because 'too hard basket'. Brazilian market has a huge E85 market, and all their vehicles are flexfuel capable. There's no appetite in this country for fixing problems, only whinging. Pretty sure we are capable of growing sugar cane in Australia and other grains capable of producing ethanol based fuels. Hence my original comment. Bundaberg is 'abit' north of me and I remember 10+ years ago heaps of talk about them starting a ethanol distillery for biofuels. . . . Only thing new to come out since is different blends of rum and etc
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28-09-2024, 06:33 AM | #13 | |||
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28-09-2024, 06:41 AM | #14 | |||
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Rudd and Gillard had a renewal fuels thing going, remember when Ford and Holden made flex fuel capable cars? Then Scumo and his cronies ripped all funding from renewable fuels and E85 bowsers started closing down everywhere.
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28-09-2024, 08:06 AM | #15 | ||
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None-ya Thanks for that, lucky dip buying E85.
Last edited by EBSXR6; 28-09-2024 at 08:18 AM. |
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28-09-2024, 08:41 AM | #16 | ||
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I was a real believer in LPG until it got much harder with extra costs meeting Euro 4
It was only a matter of time before it all got too hard and people gave up. I see the same thing happening with E85, there just no point/incentive for the bulk of car owners. People often say, why don’t the government do this or that, well we’ve just seen their plan going forward with future Euro 6 emission levels, I think E85 adds too much complication to OEMs who just want to supply the bare minimum emission requirements / obligations to our country Last edited by jpd80; 28-09-2024 at 08:46 AM. |
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28-09-2024, 08:43 AM | #17 | |||
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The main problem with E85 (from my point of view working in the auto industry) was that while it was a bit cheaper (per litre) it has less energy, therefore the L/100km is much worse. The car cost more to run, so why bother. Te other problem with E85 is the fuel's evaporation & corrosion issues. It's a bit like methanol in that regard, but not as bad. Dr Terry |
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28-09-2024, 08:51 AM | #18 | |||
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it should cost about 8 cents a litre less than 91 ULP but has been pegged at 2 cents per litre. Unless you’re green conscious, thers no need to even entertain buying the stuff unless to clean your fuel system every now and then. |
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28-09-2024, 08:52 AM | #19 | ||
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Yeah I would never trust it unless I made it myself. I've even heard of a few cases of 15% diesel
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28-09-2024, 09:07 AM | #20 | ||
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Checking how much sugar cane needs to be grown to produce ethanol?
Is there enough land, water and growing time to produce it in sufficient amounts? |
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28-09-2024, 09:18 AM | #21 | |||
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sugarcane waste and molasses, roughly one tonne of waste produces 70-80 litres of ethanol For the longest time, cane farmer cooperations and mills, made nearly all their money from sugar sales but now that’s changing so fingers crossed they start exploring ethanol for fuel and plastics. |
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28-09-2024, 10:49 AM | #22 | |||
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Holden Port Melbourne factory used to build the E85 engines for the Brazilian market. |
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28-09-2024, 10:51 AM | #23 | |||
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Pretty sure their version is 107 octane as well, This old MCM video has a bit about it, as well as at the lab. There was a local kid (yes a child) out my way who was working with a local saw mill to make a variant of biodiesel out of their waste saw dust. There's a new waste to energy plant going in at Sunbury which the locals are having a sook about, (extra 500 trucks a day into the area, and a big smoke stack) As well as a biofuel generator in Wollert at the Aurora waste treatment facility which captures all the methane from the sewage and burns it in generators. There's ways and means, but there's no drive. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 28-09-2024 at 11:07 AM. |
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28-09-2024, 11:27 AM | #24 | ||
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Nope. 90% of cars sold in Brazil are made in Brazil according to the World Bank. It stands to reason they produce something specifically for their market. Which European or Asian manufacturers are even producing cars capable of using E85? I suspect what ones are, are producing vehicles most of us wouldnt be interested in driving, let alone paying for, and certainly not in numbers that would justify importing them.
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28-09-2024, 11:37 AM | #25 | |||
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As I said above, Holden Port Melbourne factory was making the engines for them as well, its not like E85 is some mythical beast thats difficult to make cars run on, VEII/VF Commodores have a flexfuel sensor that tells the ECU the composition of the fuel and then it makes adjustments with AFR and timing, and they can run on everything from E0-E85: https://www.efisolutions.com.au/vdo-...lex-e85-sensor Thats the OEM part there, its made by VDO-Continental. Oh and the Ford Ranger comes in an E85 variant too - do Australians buy any Ford Rangers? Just on Ford alone they had the following FFVs: Focus Fiesta Mondeo Ranger F150 Superduty Transit They also do these: Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 28-09-2024 at 12:00 PM. |
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28-09-2024, 11:55 AM | #26 | ||
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The ethanol ate all the fuel systems.....better off without it.
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28-09-2024, 12:19 PM | #27 | |||
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28-09-2024, 12:26 PM | #28 | |||
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WA at least had brains and has a reservation policy for their domestic market, us we'd rather sell it overseas for cheap then buy it back off the same people for ridiculous prices. The era of cheap gas for Victorians is long over unfortunately. |
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28-09-2024, 12:34 PM | #29 | |||
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We just need to clear all the land growing grapes for the heavily subsidised p*ss up against the wall industry.
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28-09-2024, 01:42 PM | #30 | |||
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[QUOTE=None-ya;6921427]
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https://www.reefplan.qld.gov.au/land-use/cane The sugar cane industry itself faces very stiff international competition from high-fructose corn syrup as a substitute in food manufacturing. And, sugar, even though it is a natural product, there is an advertising push to use low energy manufactured replacements like aspartame. The Australian sugar cane industry makes only 2% of the world's sugar. As such, it is a bit player and a price taker. Just to extend the answer a little. Because of the energy yield of solar and wind, various interest groups would much rather see the sugar cane farming land converted to solar PV and wind farms. Instead of using ethanol as an intermediatory energy storage, we install massive transmission networks and convert the fleet to EV. (Chinese solar PV, wind turbines, batteries, and EV's - of course.) |
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