Accident on the Grand Parade

ar3nbe · 16-10-2005, 01:16 AM

I had just stoped to get some petrol at the Shell on the Grand Pd in Brighton , i was pulling out of the servo, waiting, thinking about all the idiots that were speeding past (two cars were racing). I see a white car come past in the middle lane, and a gap emerge in the traffic, i slowly begin to pull out when all of a sudden i hear wheels begin to scretch, i look up and see the White Corolla (i think it was a Corolla but hard to hell) lose the backend go sideways and hit a telegraph pole. The front end of the car was just crushed. The power lines started to spark, so i banged it into reverse, pulled out of the servo incase the lines fell and the servo went up in flames, and parked the car. Me and my two mates jumped out and ran over to the car to see if anyone was hurt. The driver was badly injured and was screaming to her her out, the passanger was also badly injured. The Police, Fire and Ambos turn up within 10 minutes and we give our statement to the police (we were the only witnesses that actually waited for the police to give a statement).

This whole incident has changed the way i think about driving. To see how a car going 60 maybe 70, once sideways can be damaged to easily by hitting the pole. There is no reaction time. By the time the driver got sideways she hit the pole. It has also opened up my eyes for safety features in a car, im sure in a modern car the driver wouldnt of been as badly injured.

Did anyone else see this accident, or hear about it ? I would love to know

And sorry for the long post, i just wanted to share my story with you all, and remind you that cars really are dangerous, and life can change so quickly. I also want to give my appreciation for the emergency crews, they arrived fairly quickly and did a fabolous job.

Dave_au · 16-10-2005, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar3nbe

It has also opened up my eyes for safety features in a car, im sure in a modern car the driver wouldnt of been as badly injured.

I certainly know what you mean mate about the fraility of life.

As for side on impacts - especially from telephone poles - anything above 65Km/h in a side impact is going to end up in hospital - there's no crumple zones, only intrusion bars, and if your lucky side airbags.

**Mechan1k** · 16-10-2005, 01:38 AM

All the idiots out racing around Brighton and La Perouse on a weekend night ... there's bound to be trouble around there.

I used to be out cruising a efw years back ... but it's gotten much worse since then.

You are lucky you were involved in the accident either. I try and steer clear of those areas now. (not saying you were there doing the same thing as the others in the area though).

I feel much safer having airbags and both my vehicles now ... cos i know at least I have some extra safety features I never used to have.

I have also been in a car that has spun at 50km/h in slippery/oily conditions ... once the car is in a spin ... it's all over ... you stop when you hit something (and in my case back then ... it was another car ... OUCH).

ar3nbe · 16-10-2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

I certainly know what you mean mate about the fraility of life.

As for side on impacts - especially from telephone poles - anything above 65Km/h in a side impact is going to end up in hospital - there's no crumple zones, only intrusion bars, and if your lucky side airbags.

The car ended up hittin front on, well the front right hand side of the bonnet, spose it was better for those involved, but still after seeing the damage, i dont have high hopes for the driver surviving

It is scary though, these things come out of nowhere, if i pulled out a few seconds earlier, maybe, just maybe i could of been the one who was hit.

Blue Oval Mopar Man · 16-10-2005, 02:02 AM

To see how a car going 60 maybe 70, once sideways can be damaged to easily by hitting the pole. There is no reaction time. By the time the driver got sideways she hit the pole. It has also opened up my eyes for safety features in a car, im sure in a modern car the driver wouldnt of been as badly injured.

Its for this very reason I am building a roll cage into my own cars whille I am builing them . I would also be open to the idea of wearing helmets when driving or riding in a car ! ( not compulsary of course )

**Stav** · 16-10-2005, 06:44 AM

I think there are too many heros getting up there .
I am glad that you are ok because it really is easy to get badly hurt forever from one accident.I think some people think that they are invinceble until it happens to them or they see it for themselves.ffs slow down everyone ..

jonbays · 16-10-2005, 07:41 AM

I used to ride motorbikes when I was younger and the EXPERIENCE of getting hurt from falling off after making minor mistakes rammed home the reality of what stupid or careless driving can do. too may youg drivers get away with car scartches and dents in minor bingles and don't change their driving style or habits untill they get the nasty shock which inevitably takes others out too when youre driving a couple of ton around

I sometimes think if everyone had to have a motorbike licence for a year before getting a car licence you would see fewer and better drivers on the road. Political and practical reasons aside of course.

max^power · 16-10-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar3nbe

Me and my two mates jumped out and ran over to the car to see if anyone was hurt. The driver was badly injured and was screaming to her her out, the passanger was also badly injured. The Police, Fire and Ambos turn up within 10 minutes and we give our statement to the police (we were the only witnesses that actually waited for the police to give a statement).

You and your mates should be very proud of yourselves, it's rare to hear stories like this. well done for helping the people involved, i hope they appreciated it!

Quote:

I sometimes think if everyone had to have a motorbike licence for a year before getting a car licence you would see fewer and better drivers on the road.

YES! i've always said this, having a bike licence and going through the training, you learn alot. I dont have a bike anymore, but i rode one daily for almost two years. Its like taking the blinkers off a car only driver. I'm not trying to offend car only drivers! this is just the way i'd describe how the bike licence helps.

FalKeen · 16-10-2005, 10:11 AM

actually drove past this accident when all the rescue crew were there and the roof had been cut off the car

goes to show what a waste of time it was dropping the speed limit there from 70 to 60, doesnt make any difference what the legal speed is when theyre racing does it

ltd · 16-10-2005, 10:15 AM

I agree.

Years ago, I use to cruise around with mates through Sydney but fortunately for us, it was back in the day when there was a police presence on the road and we very rarely used to speed (This was thanks to seeing an ambulance video of car crashes with a fairlane 500 and a tree when doing a first aid certificate)

In actual fact, most of the police in the areas we used to cruise through like the cbd started to get to know us; especially when one of them commented on our cars being nice. On occasion we even had some of them join in our procession in their police cars and come to macca's with us.

Just so there's no confusion the cars we had were ricers that I guess you would call "special fried rice", but there was no hint of blow off valves or angle grinder lowering jobs, stolen wheels or even massive bass cannons in the boot. We had everything done professionally by autosport salons complete with engineer certificates so it was safe.

Todays ricers unfortunately are modified with a budget at home without any consideration given to the vehicles change in characteristics caused by things like cutting stock springs. I've actually seen a severely lowered BMW bounce over a bump and end up through a fence. These days, the focus is more on speed than anything else and the ability to look more "SICK" than anyone else. In particular, there is an over represented statistic on the ethnicity of the street racers, and according to police (my mates a cop), there is a massive attitude problem with this particular group; most of them run from police when being asked to pull over.

Thanks to snivel libertarians these people know that police pursuits are called off if they cross to the other side of the road (ie driving toward oncoming traffic).

The only time they catch these idiots nowadays is when they have special blitzes on, or when one of them has crashed. The really unfortunate thing here is that when these d heads do crash, they often crash into an innocent, unsuspecting motorist just minding there own business.
As my mate says though, its amazing how these blokes full of bravado and hatred for authority turn into crying babbling idiots when they're told that their car is going to be impounded.

Haza · 16-10-2005, 10:52 AM

i drove past it last nite when the cops had blocked off the road. The car appeared to be an old honda civic or some other small honda vehicle. Did both girls survive, cause that front end of the car was pretty much pushed back into the back seat of the car.

Scary stuff.

**Stav** · 16-10-2005, 11:46 AM

I think it does come down to the care which people drive and the safety of the vehicle.Nevertheless someones daughter sister,mother or lover was in that car..nothing but a tragedy..and far too late to fix ..

ar3nbe · 16-10-2005, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haza

i drove past it last nite when the cops had blocked off the road. The car appeared to be an old honda civic or some other small honda vehicle. Did both girls survive, cause that front end of the car was pretty much pushed back into the back seat of the car.

Scary stuff.

Im not sure what the status of the girls are, looking at the driver, she was pretty badly hurt, i think the passanger, from what i heard might of been alright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

I agree.

In particular, there is an over represented statistic on the ethnicity of the street racers, and according to police (my mates a cop), there is a massive attitude problem with this particular group; most of them run from police when being asked to pull over.

Just on that, those same people you are talking about wernt very corporative, when they were asked to politly move by the coppers, they started to backchat. Why cant they see, that in a situation like this all they are causing is harm ?

ar3nbe · 16-10-2005, 06:18 PM

Thought i should give a quick update, i just saw on the news that the driver is in a stable condition, thank God, and the passanger got away with minor injuries.

Luck was on there side

vztrt · 16-10-2005, 06:43 PM

Lately i've been seeing more and more accidents, and not by cars that have been overly modified. I saw a brand new M5 written off, and old guy have a head on, a guy in a stock BA falcon put his car thru someones fence (I think he died because there were flowers there later in the day. I've noticed alot of accidents are happening due to people having to arrive at their destination that 2 minutes earlier. What is with these people? " If I lose two extra minutes of my life it's over ....."

I use to be like that until I realised that I wasn't getting there that much quicker but I was risking my car.

Also some people got have no sense when there out on the road. LIke driving 10kmh slower in the right lane on a two lane street. Changing lanes just before they need to turn into a street. Sitting in a persons blindspot (this one drives me nuts). Tail gating on the freeway. Trying to change lanes and not using there indicator, than getting angry when other drivers arn't letting them in (guy i know). Having to get their car infront of yours and than hitting the brakes and driving slower than the speed limit. Also speeding to get onto the road and making sure you have to brake hard so you dont hit them up the bum... Thats all I can think of at the moment. I know there's other ones out there.

Just remebered not letting people in, when the indicator is going, when the traffic is going slow (there's this lane merge that I have to do on my way to uni and it's a battle each morning)

gtfpv · 16-10-2005, 07:00 PM

you are to be congratulated for hanging around . how many others witnessed and carried on with thier daily shiiiite. i hope you get a reward in life for being a good person.
i too have changed my thoughts on life and fragility . after being rearended and going into a slide and spin at 110kms per hour . its horrible spinning for about 200metres without any control . lucky i didn't hit anything or roll . but hitting a pole would be catastrophic at any speed . sideways.

cArSiK · 16-10-2005, 07:04 PM

I drove past this accident last night and couldnt work out for the life of me how someone could hit a pole on a stright piece of road. The pole was in a bad way , so it must have been a HARD hit.....

ar3nbe · 16-10-2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cArSiK

I drove past this accident last night and couldnt work out for the life of me how someone could hit a pole on a stright piece of road. The pole was in a bad way , so it must have been a HARD hit.....

It was hard, i to cant understand how they lost it at that point, the only conclusion we could come up with was that she pulled the handbrake (rear brakes locked up), or maybe some sort of mechanical failure. If you know the spot the car went sideways a fraction after the drive way to leave the shell, so thats prob about 15-25 metres before the poll, so no chance to wipe off the speed. You see it in movies, but untill you witness it in real life you just dont understand how quickly it happens.

And thanks for those praiseing me for staying, but i didnt do it for people to think i was good, i did it because i was concerned, after seeing the harshness of the impact. There would of been 2 other cars that witnessed it directly, but they happned to leave. However there was one bloke that saw the incident as he was driving past, got out of his car went over, tried to calm those involved down, and rang the family members of those injured aswell. I think its this man, aswell as the efforts of ther rescue crew that deserve the thanks.

Keepleft · 17-10-2005, 12:09 AM

"I see a white car come past in the middle lane, and a gap emerge in the traffic, i slowly begin to pull out when all of a sudden i hear wheels begin to scretch, i look up and see the White Corolla (i think it was a Corolla but hard to hell) lose the backend go sideways and hit a telegraph pole".

Yes, absolutely 'speed related'. We need more speed cameras, think we'll put them on the newly upgraded sections (FWY standard) of Pacific Highway north of Newcastle.

I remember years ago a fatal Lamorghini crash, fatal for the two on board. Happened on Epping road in Sydney, another 'speed related crash' where another driver (small Toyota perhaps Corolla) was seen by some witness to pull-out from a side street in front of the closing Lamorghini Countach, their estimated closing speed on that 3-lane section was at around 160km/h.

The Lambo hits the raised narrow median, rolls and the driver is beheaded. From memory, the absolutely and totally innocent 'other party' wasn't found.

vztrt · 17-10-2005, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

We need more speed cameras

We dont need more speed camera's, we just need them to be used more effectively. Putting camera's in areas to generate income is useless.

Putting camera's in high accident zones with sign's saying speed camera coming up will at least slow people down.

Here in melbourne, all I see is a sign saying high accident zone, thats not going to slow anybody down. If there was a speed camera there that everyone could see you'd see the speed of those cars come down.

Keepleft · 17-10-2005, 12:20 AM

VZTRT - I was NOT being serious about the cameras.

I would seriously restrict their use, and despite efforts by some VIC based academia, we will NOT remove the three warning signs on approach. The NSW system targets 'inattentive drivers' using 'speed' as the trigger in doing so.

vztrt · 17-10-2005, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

I was NOT being serious about the cameras.

Ahh ok..Sarcasm didn't come thru!!

Nice to see you guys get a warning. We have to remeber were the fixed camera's are and spot the ones mounted on cars (which is pretty easy, they stick out like sore thumbs).

MAFIA · 17-10-2005, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Years ago, I use to cruise around with mates through Sydney but fortunately for us, it was back in the day when there was a police presence on the road and we very rarely used to speed (This was thanks to seeing an ambulance video of car crashes with a fairlane 500 and a tree when doing a first aid certificate)

In actual fact, most of the police in the areas we used to cruise through like the cbd started to get to know us; especially when one of them commented on our cars being nice. On occasion we even had some of them join in our procession in their police cars and come to macca's with us.

I've actually seen a severely lowered BMW bounce over a bump and end up through a fence. .

A BMW bounce over a bump and end up through a fence??? Pleasxe explain???

Police use to be nice years ago and remember them saying how nice your car is but now alot of them are pricks! Once the the young police officer spend a few years on the job they start being like the rest of the old useless bastard.

And for you guys saying that modern cars are safer then older cars... well that not true at all. Let me give you an example(with no air bag and no driver), you have an XC vs BA, Both doing 60 km per hour and they hit a wall head on. The XC will have very little damage while the BA crumbles up like a coke can.

The driver could walk out the XC with no harm done as the older car are made of steel(some with thick Aluminuin) which absorb the shock and are much stronger material compare to the BA on the other hand just smash like it a throw away can of soda and you can't alway expect the air bag to save you cause it won't.

RED_EL_XR8 · 17-10-2005, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAFIATL

A BMW bounce over a bump and end up through a fence??? Pleasxe explain???

Police use to be nice years ago and remember them saying how nice your car is but now a lot of them are pricks! Once the the young police officer spend a few years on the job they start being like the rest of the old useless bastard.

And for you guys saying that modern cars are safer then older cars... well that not true at all. Let me give you an example(with no air bag and no driver), you have an XC vs BA, Both doing 60 km per hour and they hit a wall head on. The XC will have very little damage while the BA crumbles up like a coke can.

The driver could walk out the XC with no harm done as the older car are made of steel(some with thick Aluminuin) which absorb the shock and are much stronger material compare to the BA on the other hand just smash like it a throw away can of soda and you can't alway expect the air bag to save you cause it won't.

How can one person be wrong so many times in a single post?

Your BA verses XC comments are the nonsense of a simpleton and defy every piece of research, every statistic, and every bit of automotive know how from this century and the last.
Visible damage has no bearing whatsoever on occupant safety, and if the accident intrusion was side on the occupant of an AU or BA Falcon will likely walk away from from an incident that would have probably killed the occupant of an older car. Clearly on this subject you do not have a clue!!

As for your generalised comments on police officers, I would remind you that more than a few AFF members are serving or ex police officers and they may find your comment even more offensive than I do.
The generalisations you portray are not indicative, nor the experience of most others here and if you feel harassed then maybe you should consider which part of your behaviour is inciting such attention. just one post and you already have me watching you like a hawk, if your road manners are the same I can see how they would attract attention!

ar3nbe · 17-10-2005, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Yes, absolutely 'speed related'. We need more speed cameras, think we'll put them on the newly upgraded sections (FWY standard) of Pacific Highway north of Newcastle.

I dont think we should make conclusions and say it was speed related, the driver was travelling no quicker than the cars had been just before her. She wasnt accelerating, infact it looked so "normal" that i was about to pull out behind her.

Im not trying to be rude or anything here, im just simply saying that the stereotype that all accidents are caused be speeding (in particular young drivers) arnt always true, and us youngens who are "safe" (the vast majority) dont get our names tarnished by those select few who simply are hoons.

bindi · 17-10-2005, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

How can one person be wrong so many times in a single post?

Ok Red... this is a first - I agree with you!

MAFIATL, I have a video here of a documentary called Crash. Hire it, or I will send you a copy - it talks about car safety since the cars of the 1950s. Each time I watch it, I want to go out and buy a Volvo...

You have to realise that yes, the XC is not made of plastic and does not have crumple zones or airbags like a BA. But the XC driver would not walk away from the same accident that a BA driver would. This is because the force of impact is transferred to the occupant/s of the car in the XC rather than the crumple zones taking the force of the impact in the BA.

A damn lot of research has gone into car safety and to make a blanket statement like the one you made shows me you are very ignorant :yeees: I have done alot of research on the subject of car safety and it's a pet interest of mine. Do yourself a favour and use the net to your advantage - read and learn.

ar3nbe, congratulations for sticking around and doing your best for the ppl involved. I saw it on the news up here.

It's hard when you come across an accident. The last one we witnessed and helped out at is forever etched in my memory because it was the first time I had ever seen a car on fire. Also one of the young blokes we helped is now a paraplegic (he left us being able to feel his legs... and somewhere between the ambulance and the hospital something happened - he's now suing them).

Keepleft · 17-10-2005, 09:54 AM

Bindi - the XC certainly has crumple zones, indeed most any monocoque body since the 1950's has.

You can easily see the pre-determined 'grooves' in the bonnet and body skeleton. It's just they are somewhwat more 'solid' and not as forgiving as today's version.

AR3NBE WROTE:
"I dont think we should make conclusions and say it was speed related, the driver was travelling no quicker than the cars had been just before her. She wasnt accelerating, infact it looked so "normal" that i was about to pull out behind her".

A 'speed related' crash is one that occures BELOW or ABOVE the applicable speed limit. Law enforcement, generally, targets speed above the legal threshold, to do otherwise is far more difficult to achieve.

So the question is, did you pull out behind, or in front of her, AND into what lane?

"Im not trying to be rude or anything here, im just simply saying that the stereotype that all accidents are caused be speeding (in particular young drivers) arnt always true, and us youngens who are "safe" (the vast majority) dont get our names tarnished by those select few who simply are hoons".

I am well aware of all this, in fact a licensed (of course) NSW P Plater has 0.01% chance of of dying in a road crash statisically, that said, they are over represented in various crash rate criteria per capita, when compared to most other age and driver groups. This situation applies in ALL Western countries and includes now results from India through China where the reality is the same.

MITCHAY · 17-10-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bindi

Ok Red... this is a first - I agree with you!

MAFIATL, I have a video here of a documentary called Crash. Hire it, or I will send you a copy - it talks about car safety since the cars of the 1950s. Each time I watch it, I want to go out and buy a Volvo...

I have seen that video too. Its a good documentary.

And for MAFIATL.

Quote:

How Do Crumple Zones Work?

Crumple zones are deliberate weak spots that engineers have placed in the structure of a car. While this might appear contrary to passenger safety, there are sound principles behind this approach.

By placing the weak spots in strategic locations, the metal work of a car can be made to collapse in a controlled manner. This creates 2 mechanisms by which the energy from an impact can be managed:

1. in deforming the metal work of the car, energy from the impact gets "used up" or converted into heat. This reduces the amount of energy left to damage the passenger area.

2. since the collapse is controlled, energy from the impact can be directed away from the passenger area. In most designs, force from the impact is channelled to areas such as the floor, bulkhead, sills, roof and bonnet.

Older cars are extremely rigid therefore DONT absorb impact effectively.

You cannot argue with physics

http://www.visionengineer.com/mech/crumple_zones.shtml