Car insurance question

Black XR6 · 02-02-2005, 10:46 AM

This may seem like a stupid question.

But in the event that you are hit by another driver and are not at fault. Your car is written off. How do they work out how much to pay you.

I ask this because I was thinking. You pay for insurance and cover your car for $20k. You have a contract with one insurance company for agreed value. Now when the other driver hits you and writes off your car it all goes through his insurance. How does the opposing insurance company value your car? Do they just go with your agreed value? Do they try and do it on market value?

Or do you go through your own insurance and they chase the at fault driver.

Also, what happens in a situatioin where you just have the car under thrid party, and nothing else?

Pilch · 02-02-2005, 11:05 AM

Under third party, your insurance will cover any costs of the other driver on the basis of the blame you receive in the accident, but you will pay a premium of say, the first $600 damage.

Note: It is uncommon for insurance companies to accept 100% blame for an accident.

Not to sure for full comp., but I think you get paid out by your insurance company, and your insurance company gets paid by the other insurance company.

Go write your GT off and find out

:

Black XR6 · 02-02-2005, 11:11 AM

lol.....ah no.

I was just wondering what happens in that situation. Especially with older cars and differing valuations.

Smoked · 02-02-2005, 01:30 PM

Id think your insurace company pays you, hence why you have an agreed value, to cover you for both when you or the opposing driver is at fault. Still an interesting question tho.

Kryton · 02-02-2005, 01:36 PM

what would happen if YOU have no insurance but someone smashes into you, writing your car off. they have full comp and are at fault.

Smoked · 02-02-2005, 01:41 PM

They will cover you, but you'll have a fun time trying to get it from them. But for all purposes, you are covered.

Dave_au · 02-02-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

what would happen if YOU have no insurance but someone smashes into you, writing your car off. they have full comp and are at fault.

You'll be repaid the value of your car for the market value that their insurance assessor determines the car to be worth.

In answering the question further about agreed value- if your not at fault the other insurance company will make an assessment of damages done to your vehicle. If there is a shortfall between what the other insurance company determines the car to be worth, and what your agreed value is, your insurance company will contribute to the amount to reach the agreed value.

You need to be careful though because many of the insurance companies these days have limited the use of agreed value in contracts in preference of market value.

Racecraft · 02-02-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black XR6

This may seem like a stupid question.

But in the event that you are hit by another driver and are not at fault. Your car is written off. How do they work out how much to pay you.

This is why you have an agreed value on your car. Most use a commercial Redbook which is based loosely on market value but you can get the car revalued and change your policy accordingly, be aware that if the value of your ride increases so does the cost of your coverage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black XR6

You pay for insurance and cover your car for $20k. You have a contract with one insurance company for agreed value. Now when the other driver hits you and writes off your car it all goes through his insurance. How does the opposing insurance company value your car? Do they just go with your agreed value?

Your insurance company will pay you out, it is then upto your insurer to chase up re-embursement from the other party or the other parties insurer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black XR6

Also, what happens in a situatioin where you just have the car under thrid party, and nothing else?

This is where it gets tricky, you need to report the accident to the police, have a traffic accident report number so the Police can deem who was at fault. You also need to have the other parties details. Sometimes you can be lucky and when the at fault party lodges a claim or notifies their insurance company, their insurer will just pay you a market value of your car.
It happens suprisingly often though that the at fault people don't lodge a claim, or worse have no insurance at all. In those situations I simply write a Letter of Demand for the value I am chasing.. If they dont pay or refuse to acknowledge you simply refer it to a Collection Agency and let them chase up the money for you.

BlueAU i think works in this field so maybe a PM to him will clarify the details

loxxr6 · 02-02-2005, 02:18 PM

If you claim against the other person's insurance you are at the mercy of the other person's insurance company in respect to what they pay you out. Whether thats a market value figure or what their assessor says, its bad luck.

If you go through your policy you get whatever your sum insured is (if you have an agreed value policy) or you get paid the market value (if you have a market value policy).

Your insurance company won't cover any shortfall in the agreed value - if the other company values your car less - unless you lodge a claim on your insurance policy.

The downside is that some insurance companies - with crap benefits - sting you for an excess or drop your NCB if you lodge on your insurance (nrma doesnt for instance). if you are not at fault.

loxxr6 · 02-02-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

In those situations I simply write a Letter of Demand for the value I am chasing.. If they dont pay or refuse to acknowledge you simply refer it to a Collection Agency and let them chase up the money for you.

Small claims court should be able to handle this if you already sent off a couple of letter of demands.

Some TPPD policies have a cover for if you get hit by an uninsured 3rd party.

Zedjay · 02-02-2005, 02:42 PM

a few years ago i had a council truck run up the back of me.i had no insurance and a realy nice XBGS coupe.their insurance company sent me a check for $1100 saying thats all it was worth because it was only an old car.i kicked up a stink saying i want it fixed and finaly a guy from the council came and had a look.he told me he just finished doing up an XAGT coupe and knew what they were worth,he told me to get three quotes and send them to him.in the end i got another check for$6400.

kick up its worth it.

Black XR6 · 02-02-2005, 03:35 PM

So basically you are at the mercy of their assesor if you only have thrid party?

What sort of system is that were the people paying out the money get to assess how much money they have to pay. And then if you wanna complain, you have to complain to the people who assessed it.

Something very wrong there.

LTDHO · 02-02-2005, 03:56 PM

Alot of people are confused and confusing matters further.

Quote:

But in the event that you are hit by another driver and are not at fault. Your car is written off. How do they work out how much to pay you.

If you have a market value policy then it is up to the assessor to determine the value. If you claim through your company they decide, if got go through other company thay decide.
If you have Sum Insured policy, it is the same. Sum insured is the cap or limit you put on your policy, so you can be paid upto that amount.
If you have Agreed Value then 99% of the time it is better for you to go through your company as it will be higher than market value. The other company DO NOT pay you agreed!

Quote:

Under third party, your insurance will cover any costs of the other driver on the basis of the blame you receive in the accident, but you will pay a premium of say, the first $600 damage.

Note: It is uncommon for insurance companies to accept 100% blame for an accident.

Firstly If you are at fault your policy covers the other vehicle, property, etc. You will only have to pay your EXCESS.

Secondly, the Note is BULLS**T. They will negotiate liability and decide who is at fault, on some occasions both parties contributed to the accident.

Quote:

what would happen if YOU have no insurance but someone smashes into you, writing your car off. they have full comp and are at fault.

If you have no insurance you are running a risk of send yourself broke for life. I know you've heard "What if you hit a Mercedes?" Well i know of someone who backed into and wrote of a $250,000 Ferrari. In debt for life..
To answer you, You simply speak with the other insurance company and they will assess your car. then they pay, easy!

Quote:

This is where it gets tricky, you need to report the accident to the police, have a traffic accident report number so the Police can deem who was at fault.

This is not the case in Victoria. The police are not interest unless someone is hurt and they will not work out who is at fault.

Quote:

The downside is that some insurance companies - with crap benefits - sting you for an excess or drop your NCB if you lodge on your insurance (nrma doesnt for instance). if you are not at fault.

Your NCB or rating and excess will only be effected/applied if you are at fault! Not just for lodging a claim.

T_Terror · 02-02-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

what would happen if YOU have no insurance but someone smashes into you, writing your car off. they have full comp and are at fault.

Then you get their insurance company to pay out for your car through Recovery Organisation (lawyers).

Some do No Win, No Fee and seem to do a good job.

Im in exactly this situation, currently awaiting outcome. Lookin good though.

Black XR6 · 02-02-2005, 06:48 PM

Ok, T Terror. Say they rule in your favour. What happens then, do they pay market value, as that is really the only yard stick they have to go by. Problem is good luck replacing your car for what most companies quote as market value. I dare anybody to actually buy a car in good condition for market value. Especially an older classic. Insurance companies seem to get values for these cars horribly wrong.

So what then, you just have to accept thousands less than your car is really worth on the say so of the insurance company who have investors and are out to make money not spend it.

Black XR6 · 02-02-2005, 06:49 PM

Oh, and the police in NSW dont want to know about an accident unless someone was injured or a car was damaged and undriveable.

We got hit in a carpark in our AU and went to the police station to report it. They told us to ring some hotline. The hotline people didnt want to know about it.

loxxr6 · 02-02-2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Your NCB or rating and excess will only be effected/applied if you are at fault! Not just for lodging a claim.

For a while there were companies that did not offer a preserved NCB if you weren't at fault. Most if not all will. Some still hit you up with a loading at your renewal even if it's not your fault. Working in insurance I can't stress to people enough to read the policy booklets (Product Disclosure Statements) before you commit to something. People that pay for something they never read the fine print on really don't deserve any sympathy if something goes wrong.

Quote:

Oh, and the police in NSW dont want to know about an accident unless someone was injured or a car was damaged and undriveable.

Exactly right.

Black XR6 · 02-02-2005, 10:32 PM

Well. IMHO there shouldnt be such a thing as fine print.

A company should be forced to disclose all points clearly and concisely. In the same font and size and color of the rest of the document. Its just underhanded BS that should be legislated against.

loxxr6 · 02-02-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Well. IMHO there shouldnt be such a thing as fine print.

A company should be forced to disclose all points clearly and concisely. In the same font and size and color of the rest of the document. Its just underhanded BS that should be legislated against.

My bad on the terminology "fine print". Since recent reforms with the Privacy Act/FSR etc all documents should be "clear and concise" as you say and the policy wording should be to a set standard. The fact remains that people should still know what they're buying.

Smoked · 03-02-2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

If you have no insurance you are running a risk of send yourself broke for life. I know you've heard "What if you hit a Mercedes?" Well i know of someone who backed into and wrote of a $250,000 Ferrari. In debt for life..

Has this person ever heard of Bankruptcy? If you are unable to pay a debt, you declare that you are bankrupt and the dept is generally waived, or as much of it as you can make.

JADED6 · 03-02-2005, 02:40 AM

I'd rather bankruptcy (7years of no finance,credit or interest free) than have to pay back a $250,000 ferrari.

LTDHO · 03-02-2005, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black XR6

Well. IMHO there shouldnt be such a thing as fine print.

A company should be forced to disclose all points clearly and concisely. In the same font and size and color of the rest of the document. Its just underhanded BS that should be legislated against.

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

My bad on the terminology "fine print". Since recent reforms with the Privacy Act/FSR etc all documents should be "clear and concise" as you say and the policy wording should be to a set standard. The fact remains that people should still know what they're buying.

Very true. There is no such thinh as fine print. If there is something you didn't know then you most probably didn't ready the policy booklet (PDS). It's amasing how many people don't read it and assume what they do and don't get!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JADED6

I'd rather bankruptcy (7years of no finance,credit or interest free) than have to pay back a $250,000 ferrari

I rather have insurance then declare bankruptcy!!

Yaw · 05-02-2005, 10:49 PM

I have read through a lot of the questions posed here and a lot of the answers that have been given. A lot of answers that have been given are somewhat misguided, not saying all and certainly not on purpose.
I thought maybe since I work in the insurance industry I can clear up a few myths with Facts.
ANY insurance company descion that is made .ie in the way of a claim MUST be able to stand up in court.
Police cannot and do not asign fault, mainly because they have no idea.
Fault is decided upon the relevant traffic act and the particulars of the accident.
Those that assign fault are not always assessors, usually it will be a trained opperator that takes the details over the phone of a claim.
Insurance companies will look for ways to pay a claim under thier particular policy, not ways to deny a claim.

Market Value Vs Agreed Value
firstly as already pointed out read your policy!!!!!!!!!!
most policies are fair market value.
Market value is not plucked from the air.
It comes from one of two reputable places.
The Red Book
or The Glasses Guide.
Both of which come out monthly and are used by the entire auto industry.
I personally am familiar with the Glasses Guide.
What they do is keep an eye on prices of each model car being sold through dealerships, papers, auctions, and private sales.
They have three prices for each vehicle listed. a below average price, and above average price and an average price. with avereage klms for that vehicle listed.

Agreed Value
Not always what it seems. Once again READ you policy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most that offer agreed value state "we will pay the lower of the agreed value or market value."
If you want an agreed value depending on which insurer you go to it can vary.
You may well have a car that is lets say for instance a Ford TE50 valued that you paid $29000 for. The actual market value for that car may be $25000. You don't insure it for $29000 just because you paid too much, I mean really, think about it.
If you have a car worth $1000 like a datsun 120y and you insure it for an agreed value of $25000 all that means is you will never ever write it off, it will always be a fiancially viable option to repair it. You are never gunna get a pay out of $25000.
Then there are other myths like insure the car in your parents name you will get a better no claim bonus.
Another falicy.
What happens there is that come time for a claim and an insurance company finds out it had a young driver that was not listed on the policy, it will get put into the "claims for consideration" pile. You see the opperator lodging the claim has 2 piles, claims for payment and claims for consideration.
Once in the claims for consideration pile the claim WILL be scrutinised with a fine tooth comb.
Having said that, that is not to say a claim will be denied. As I have already stated any descion a insurance company makes , it MUST stand up in court.
What can happen is they find that since it was a regular driver that was not listed after a investigation period where they will gather evedence from policy owner, registered owner and driver and witness, telephone statemnets, etc they will then charge the extra premium that should have been paid in the first place by the decptive customer thinking they are smarter than an insurance company, they will also pay any exsesses applicabe.
Another favorite I find is the policy holder such as the father of a 17 year old son that says my son had my car without my permission.
That sscenario ends like this.
The insurance company will have the name and address of the third party at fault. ie the son, The father lodges the claim saying the above. It is treated as a theft. In order to claim as a theft the police must be informed. ie The son is charged with the theft. So the car gets fixed under the policy, the father has paid an exess to have it fixed. A few months down the track after the son has been to court and charged with the theft and convicted, (all of which the father has probably paid for the sons leagal fees) The son is then able to be pursed to cover the costs incurred by the insurance company, that is the father once again has to pay for his stupid son. All to save a few hundred dollars preimum in the first place.
Bottom line is simply this.
Be honest with Insurance, it will look after you.
Insurance is also like buying a can of tuna, you can get the plain wrap, the ok stuff and the good stuff, you get what you pay for!
I hope this clears things up
Yaw