Insurance + Mods

Kirky · 07-03-2005, 12:49 PM

I informed my insurance company today that I have put an AU VCT engine in my AU Forte. because there is only about 7 months to go til my renewal is due they said that I only have to pay the extra amount for the 7 months. Seems good to me! Til she gave me the price........ $270.15 Now my whole insurance only costs me $390.00 per annum.
Does this sound rite? am I still hung over from satdee night? am I being ripped off??

Cheers,

JC · 07-03-2005, 01:08 PM

Sounds like the price difference between a Forte and an XR6 VCT. If that's the case, then you probably are being ripped off, but not much you can do about it, other than shop around and see if you can find a cheaper quote.

GTP 320 · 07-03-2005, 02:56 PM

Just shop around i'm sure that you will get better prices.
Cheers John

LTDHO · 07-03-2005, 03:18 PM

Mate why did ya tell them?

Unless the mod increases value or can 'visially' increase performance, I wouldn't.

loxxr6 · 07-03-2005, 07:54 PM

....only $390 per annum ?? Damn, I'd suffer paying that much. I pay almost 4 times as much.

As for the price hike, I'd check your insurance papers to see how they've put the different engine on your policy. Maybe some idiot has changed it to an xr6 instead and then you can argue thats not what your car is and get it reduced again. Most insurance consultants aren't enthusiasts so u never know what they do when you tell em things.

GTP 320 · 07-03-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Mate why did ya tell them?

Unless the mod increases value or can 'visially' increase performance, I wouldn't.

Because if you dont tell the Insurance company's what mods you have done,they will wipe you out completely and your not covered.
Cheers John

Yaw · 08-03-2005, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirky

I informed my insurance company today that I have put an AU VCT engine in my AU Forte. because there is only about 7 months to go til my renewal is due they said that I only have to pay the extra amount for the 7 months. Seems good to me! Til she gave me the price........ $270.15 Now my whole insurance only costs me $390.00 per annum.
Does this sound rite? am I still hung over from satdee night? am I being ripped off??

Cheers,

To be perfectly honest, no it does not sound right.
Is this comprehensive, ctp, or third party fire and theft ?
And if it is Comprehensive, what area are you in?

LTDHO · 08-03-2005, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP 320

Because if you dont tell the Insurance company's what mods you have done,they will wipe you out completely and your not covered.
Cheers John

This is not 100% true.

It depends on a few things. The only word that applies with insurance is risk. Always keep this word in your mind when thinking about insurance.

Kirky · 08-03-2005, 10:17 AM

I live just near Warrandyte.
I'm a rating 1, It is full comp. I would rather tell them and make sure that i am fully covered then to find out that im not when/if somthing happens.

I guess I will wait and see when the paper work comes in.

Shannons offered me full comp for $1400. About double what i would be paying now.

GTP 320 · 08-03-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

This is not 100% true.

It depends on a few things. The only word that applies with insurance is risk. Always keep this word in your mind when thinking about insurance.

If it's performance enhancements mods and the Insurance company are not notified,they can get out of their clause under the " Non-Disclosure" and they will,and you will be the one to suffer.
Cheers John

rodderz · 08-03-2005, 06:06 PM

The other week I rang RACV and asked them about "if" i were to install an exhaust, cai, aftermarket chip/ECU device how would they change my premium....they said those mods would be no worries unless I added 19" rims or lowered more than 1inch. I was quite surprised by that, I didnt think all those mods would be ok?

Yaw · 08-03-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirky

I live just near Warrandyte.
I'm a rating 1, It is full comp. I would rather tell them and make sure that i am fully covered then to find out that im not when/if somthing happens.

I guess I will wait and see when the paper work comes in.

Shannons offered me full comp for $1400. About double what i would be paying now.

Being Comprehesive and paying $390 per annum for it sounds too cheap
In a Sydney area such as macquaire fields or Redfern you could expect to pay nothing less than $1000 per annum for somoething like a stock standard 1988 mazda 323 worth next to nothing...your getting a pretty good deal, except to say since you made the changes mid term I would have expected the policy to just be flagged to manually review it at renewal time

LTDHO · 08-03-2005, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP 320

If it's performance enhancements mods and the Insurance company are not notified,they can get out of their clause under the " Non-Disclosure" and they will,and you will be the one to suffer.
Cheers John

John I'm familiar with 'non-disclosure'.
I'm not suggesting anyone goes out and mod's there car to the extreem and not mention anything. There are cheats that if you think about are pretty simple.

An insurance company will not see the difference when looking at an AU beetween a VCT and standard engine. Same goes for chips, etc.

They have to first notice it's different and then proove it's not factory. Do you think they would bother? The answer is No.
Sure if you drop the car by 3 inch or put on massive wheels, different story

Yaw · 08-03-2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

John I'm familiar with 'non-disclosure'.
I'm not suggesting anyone goes out and mod's there car to the extreem and not mention anything. There are cheats that if you think about are pretty simple.

An insurance company will not see the difference when looking at an AU beetween a VCT and standard engine. Same goes for chips, etc.

They have to first notice it's different and then proove it's not factory. Do you think they would bother? The answer is No.
Sure if you drop the car by 3 inch or put on massive wheels, different story

Although some may get through. What you have to keep in mind is that panel beaters are kept in buisness by insurance companies.
Quite often it may be a panel beater that notices the mod on a car and informs the insurance company (the hand that feeds them). Most panel beaters have an idea about cars and what mods are done. When the car is being repaired and it is found that for instance a sports exhaust is fitted on a car that has been rear ended. The exhaust was pushed foward by a shunt up the rear and consequently needs replacing. The panel beater quotes on replacing it. Guess what, you just got caught out by your insurance company if they are unaware of it. Most insurance companies will quote on a standard model car and will replace with "OEM" parts as their policy states. Ok all of a sudden your exhast costs more to replace, a few things can happen.
You get to kick in the extra it would cost to repair (on top of any exsess you may have paid) and suddenly you are screaming the insurance company is ripping you off, or They can deny the claim on the grounds that the car was not the car that they insured and give back the money you paid for your policy as if it never happened. When in fact what has happened in the first place is you the customer were trying to get a cheaper premium by not disclosing information to your insurer. Another word for it is Fraud.
Here is an example of a duty of disclosure statement.:

The information we need from you and what you have to do

When we agree to insure you, to renew or vary your policy, or to pay your claim, our decision relies on the accuracy of the information you give us. If that information is not accurate, we can reduce or deny any claim you may make or cancel your policy. We never want to have to do that, so you must answer honestly, correctly and completely the questions we ask about:

b2tf · 08-03-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

John I'm familiar with 'non-disclosure'.
I'm not suggesting anyone goes out and mod's there car to the extreem and not mention anything. There are cheats that if you think about are pretty simple.

An insurance company will not see the difference when looking at an AU beetween a VCT and standard engine. Same goes for chips, etc.

They have to first notice it's different and then proove it's not factory. Do you think they would bother? The answer is No.
Sure if you drop the car by 3 inch or put on massive wheels, different story

LTDHO,

I think what you fail to realise is that insurance assessors usually do have industry experience, and it's a little harder to fool them than people think.

They would be able to tell that a VCT engine was not an option in a Forte because they would have documented records of what model came with what etc etc - this they would have got directly from Ford.

I agree - with simple stuff like a steering wheel etc, it most likely would not matter if you didnt tell them (however i would personally not take the risk, i document everything i do and tell them), but with something as substantial as an engine - i think they'd find grounds to void your policy if you didnt tell them, then asked to pay up.

Insurance companies are pricks - best not to give them any chance whatsoever to stuff you around. Keep them honest by being honest.

LTDHO · 08-03-2005, 09:03 PM

B2TF,

It's up to the policy holder to make whichever risk they choose.

I know what is and is not looked for.

If you think an assessor will pick the difference, then thats good. But I find it highly unluckly that an assosr will look that hard. He will make sure the AU 6 has a AU 6 in it.

BTW

Quote:

Insurance companies are pricks - best not to give them any chance whatsoever to stuff you around. Keep them honest by being honest.

You couldn't be any more wrong!

**Uncle_Ken** · 08-03-2005, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

LTDHO,

I think what you fail to realise is that insurance assessors usually do have industry experience, and it's a little harder to fool them than people think.

They would be able to tell that a VCT engine was not an option in a Forte because they would have documented records of what model came with what etc etc - this they would have got directly from Ford.

I agree - with simple stuff like a steering wheel etc, it most likely would not matter if you didnt tell them (however i would personally not take the risk, i document everything i do and tell them), but with something as substantial as an engine - i think they'd find grounds to void your policy if you didnt tell them, then asked to pay up.

Insurance companies are pricks - best not to give them any chance whatsoever to stuff you around. Keep them honest by being honest.

So back2thefutura
What would be you call on a Casper airbox mod and BA mags on an AU II?
Should I tell them about the mags?
Uncle_ken

b2tf · 08-03-2005, 10:22 PM

Ken,

yeah, if i were you i would. Im not making myself out to be a genius on this subject, all im saying is that it's my personal opinion that if i tell them, they cant come back at me and say 'we didnt know you had/did that', and thus there's no chance of my policy being stuffed up in the event i actually need it.

Obviously BA mags on an AU wont make any difference to the running of the car whatsoever, but in terms of insurance (and this actually happened to a friend of mine), they may have issues with the width of the wheel. I.e. if they think you're still running AU standard 16x7's and you've actually got BA 17x8's, they would make something of it - in my friends case, they threatened to cancel his policy unless he took them off the car, or paid more.

In regards to the airbox mod, i wouldnt worry about telling them that. They're only interested in what could possibly change the running/mechanicals of the car, so wheel size, and in the case of this thread an engine swap, could possibly do that (in their eyes anyway).

Im not saying they'll hit you for every last little thing, but its just a way of covering yourself in case something does happen.

Yaw · 09-03-2005, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

Ken,

yeah, if i were you i would. Im not making myself out to be a genius on this subject, all im saying is that it's my personal opinion that if i tell them, they cant come back at me and say 'we didnt know you had/did that', and thus there's no chance of my policy being stuffed up in the event i actually need it.

Obviously BA mags on an AU wont make any difference to the running of the car whatsoever, but in terms of insurance (and this actually happened to a friend of mine), they may have issues with the width of the wheel. I.e. if they think you're still running AU standard 16x7's and you've actually got BA 17x8's, they would make something of it - in my friends case, they threatened to cancel his policy unless he took them off the car, or paid more.

In regards to the airbox mod, i wouldnt worry about telling them that. They're only interested in what could possibly change the running/mechanicals of the car, so wheel size, and in the case of this thread an engine swap, could possibly do that (in their eyes anyway).

Im not saying they'll hit you for every last little thing, but its just a way of covering yourself in case something does happen.

Its not what makes it go harder, faster, etc. Insurance is all about money.
If you want to insure your car that is "modified" how then is the insurance company able to calcualte an accurate figure to cover the risk involved?
The thing is simple. Insurance is all about putting you back in the same postion you were prior to a claim/accident/etc.
Ok because some of the mods you tell an insurance company they then say the premium is more or they won't insure you is to do with thier guidelines with what they cover.
For example. A set of alloy wheels. They can be wider, higher etc. that all changes the handling of a car. There are so many different mags available ranging from $500- what ever you want to pay. Some companies may say factory alloys only. reasoning is that since they are factory they have been tested on the vehicle by the manufacturer and have a set replacment price and usually 1 is avalaible as a part. Non standard alloys do not always have that. Within a year or two the manufacter of them may change the "look" of them and then how happy would you be with 1 rim that looks different because they are not gunna pay for the other 3 just to achieve a match?

These are reasonings that are used with insurance companies. Bottom line is money.

LTDHO · 09-03-2005, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

Im not making myself out to be a genius on this subject, all im saying is that it's my personal opinion that if i tell .

So you have no insurance background whats so ever?

As I said earlier the word to remember is Risk.
Each person is a risk and based on them, the car and the location, the policy is calculates. Each person can take their own risk. There are things you can get away with.

Quote:

The thing is simple. Insurance is all about putting you back in the same postion you were prior to a claim/accident/etc.

This is true so if you take the risk and don't tell them, then you will not get extra money for it.

Quote:

What would be you call on a Casper airbox mod and BA mags on an AU II?

Each insurance company have their own guide lines. When fitting wheels from a similar vehicle ie FPV or Ghia then you can claim they are factory and not pay extra premium.

**Uncle_Ken** · 09-03-2005, 08:07 AM

I reckon that I can state that my BA mags are factory. I'll make some calls and see what happens (along the line i'm thinking about getting...to the insurance company).

Uncle_ken

PA Sorry Kirky for cutting in on your post but I'm glad you brought up the topic

loxxr6 · 09-03-2005, 02:17 PM

As someone who works for an insurance company I can say without any doubt that if it's not standard to your vehicle then it needs to be disclosed.

A mod is a mod no matter what. Whether it's headlight protectors, an engine swap or wheels, if its been done it needs to be disclosed.

Should you not disclose this stuff you run the risk of your policy/claim being refused, cancelled or treated as never having been operated.

What I think some of the people's comments here relate to are that if you do have a certain mod that isn't disclosed and you do have a claim that looks like it may be refused due to non-disclosure then if you're brave you may want to take on the insurance company to prove that the mod wasn't in any way responsible for your incident/accident and therefor try and get covered. Yeah its risky but you may win out. Its not guaranteed. Either way, you're still in the wrong coz you never told the insurance company and thats what your disclosure notice says you must do.

The reason there are specialist insurance companies that charge obscene amounts is so they can underwrite your modified car correctly and hopefully without as much fuss as a standard insurer.

If you want 100% peace of mind with your mods then either tell the truth or suss out a specialist insurer.

First and foremost if you're gonna do something to your car, research the fact that it doesn't make you uninsurable.

That or do what some of the ricers I hear do, get Third Party Property and a tracker and hope you can fix your own car if you stuff it.