Fuel Blockage - What to check??

autickfordfairmont · 12-05-2006, 04:28 PM

Hey guys, a few months back my car was running really bad, so took it off to ford to have checked, they cleaned injectors, cleaned & regapped spark plugs (Should have changed so i have now) and found it was oversupplying fuel so they replaced the fuel pump. Anyways, ever since it has been alot slower, was doing 0-100 in 8 second after they had it it couldnt even get 12 sec. Which i was ****ed about, & ford recon it was perfect.
I havent had a chance to get it checked elsewhere yet, (Lack of finances) but lately it wouldnt rev past 4000rpm, like it was starving of fuel, (Fuel filter was replaced only 4000km ago), but it has gotten much worse, it wont rev past 3000rpm. if you are going down hill (or on the flat in first or second), and very very gently acceleration it will rev out further but as soon as you give it a little throttle it shutters and cuts out like its not getting any fuel. I thought, oh , bad batch of fuel, & blocked filter again, so i replaced it, but it is still doing it.
What else should i check??? How hard is the fuel pump to get out and clean the strainer??? is there anything else i should check / clean????
I was just reading another thread about cars cutting out round corners due to pickup problems, and rotating it fixes it, whats the deal with this, what do i rotate & how.

Cheers.

4.9 EF Futura · 12-05-2006, 04:35 PM

I didnt think an efi setup like ours was capable of delivering too much fuel due to the fuel pump... fuel delivery is specified by the regulator.

If the fuel pump was pumping too much, it would simply wind up back in the tank via the return line from the rail/regulator...

autickfordfairmont · 13-05-2006, 09:30 AM

yeah, so i have been told by another mechanic, that it would have been fuel pressure regulator, not Fuel Pump. Went to ford about it and they insisted that it was the pump, thats what was wrong and thats what they replaced. Thats why i will not take it back to ford again, they charged me $650 all up for pump, to clean injectors, clean & regap plugs, + diagnostic tune & labour. Which probably isnt too bad, but considering my bro just had hs fuel pump die (Again) in his EL and had it replaced for around $300 with a brand new one including labour, & ford charge $450 or something for just the pump, they are rip-offs and everytime i take my car to them it comes back with something else wrong, the only reason i took it to them this time was because i needed the car fixed right there and then, and my other mechanic just couldnt fit me in for a couple of days.

**Stav** · 13-05-2006, 12:44 PM

i reckon it could be your regulator or a faulty fuel pump relay

mik · 13-05-2006, 08:09 PM

may or may not be a fuel thing sometimes there is more than one problem but only one is diagnosed unfortunatley, i think you shoulda got a bit agro when it didnt seem right the first time, sometimes electrical stuff can give the symptoms of fuel problems, just wondering coil paks ,leads, bad earth, etc

autickfordfairmont · 30-05-2006, 02:57 PM

Hey guys, still have the problem, just havent had a chance to get it looked at yet, its ****ing me off but i have other things happening in my life at the moment that take priority, and all of my time. Took the old man for a run in her, (hes pretty switched on with these things), said yeah seems like a fuel blockage when running at first however he seems to thing the timing is all stuffed up, like way way out, cause even when not under load it does it, its not so much as a surge type dieing when running out of fuel, but more so a major major timing issue, its like its way out, its got no guts AT ALL down low, and it wont rev past 3000rpm. How can your timing get all stuffed up like that??? When ford had it could they have possibly put a VCT mapping onto my ECU instead of normal?? would that cause this, although it didnt do it initially after getting it back, was just slower.

And yeah, i got agro, dont worry about that, but they recon it was perfect, running perfect, tuned perfect, sometimes there just and wont listen.

XR6-VCT-2000 · 30-05-2006, 03:05 PM

Dunno what the go is there , but if its worse now than when you had it at the Ford dealers , then i recon they have knackered something or set something wrong ( wouldn't supprise me - they make good cars , but i wouldn't get a service from them imo ) ..anyways ... take it back if you can and get them to fix the problem they have caused ;) (if they can ! ) . gl

oh , i gather you have at least tried reseting the ecu since getting it back from the Ford service yeah ?

4.9 EF Futura · 30-05-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autickfordfairmont

Hey guys, still have the problem, just havent had a chance to get it looked at yet, its ****ing me off but i have other things happening in my life at the moment that take priority, and all of my time. Took the old man for a run in her, (hes pretty switched on with these things), said yeah seems like a fuel blockage when running at first however he seems to thing the timing is all stuffed up, like way way out, cause even when not under load it does it, its not so much as a surge type dieing when running out of fuel, but more so a major major timing issue, its like its way out, its got no guts AT ALL down low, and it wont rev past 3000rpm. How can your timing get all stuffed up like that??? When ford had it could they have possibly put a VCT mapping onto my ECU instead of normal?? would that cause this, although it didnt do it initially after getting it back, was just slower.

And yeah, i got agro, dont worry about that, but they recon it was perfect, running perfect, tuned perfect, sometimes there just and wont listen.

Yes - how can timing gety stuffed up like that on a coil pack car??? Unless there is something faulty with the coil packs themselves or the SYNC signal from the cam position sensor.... as per Mik's suggestions...

This is a noodle scratcher - that's for sure. Very disheartening when the people who built car are unable to tell you what's wrong with it.

Any other ford dealerships you have access to? Preferably one with a good reputation?

AUXRVIII · 30-05-2006, 07:34 PM

Sounds like a cat converter melt down to me.

scotty_d · 30-05-2006, 07:38 PM

Similiar thing happened to my AU about a year ago. Wouldn't rev past four grand and was getting 200km a tank. Tested fuel pressure and it was 95psi, should be around 200KPA (35psi) can't remember anyway it was 3 times the pressure lucky I didn't blow a hose.

We traced the problem down to the pressure regulator, replaced it and the problem was fixed for a full 24hrs, long story short the fuel rail was was full off crud and blocking the pressure reg.

I had to clean out my lines and fuel rail of all the crud that was blocking them and it's been fine ever since.

The engine sounded like it was starving for fuel but it was in fact running rich, also the cars behind me could hide in all the black exhaust fumes and unburnt petrol that was gushing from the exhaust.

Don't know if this helps.

Cheers Scott

scotty_d · 30-05-2006, 07:46 PM

Also when you say Ford cleaned your injectors did they take them out of the car and do it properly or did they just run a wynns on car kit through the fuel line and add an additive to the tank. If they did the later it is a waste of time and money and just something to get $5 in to the service advisor's pocket, most mechanics don't even do the on-car kits just chuck them out or keep them in their toolbox (makes great degreaser).

autickfordfairmont · 31-05-2006, 10:23 AM

Ok, initial problem before ford was over supply of fuel, (Blowing huge aounts of black smoke), i needed it fixed there and then so i got them to, they recon it was fuel pump, it fixed it, but it was alot slower afterward, ran great, but just slower.
They did pull the injectors out and clean them, or so they said.

But since then its now got this problem, wouldnt rev past 4K, i thought fuel blockage, replaced fuel filter, still no fixx, and its dropped down to 3K now.

I will have to take it to get fixed somewhere, dont want to go to ford, but i may have to if its electrical, like computer wise, as another "Good Mechanic" i know said yeah he can have a look and give it a tune, but if they have updated the ECU program, or something like that, he doesnt have the equipment to play with that stuff, he would have to send it off to ford anyways.

autickfordfairmont · 31-05-2006, 10:26 AM

And yeah, have given a ECU Reset, no luck there, earths have been checked, & leads seem fine, they arent that old, but when i have had them fail before, i have major miss down low, (cause they short out somewhere) but when higher rpm they dont short as much cause they sort of jump past the short a bit.

mik · 31-05-2006, 09:21 PM

the next thing i would be checking is the leads and coil paks, how many k`s has your car done ?? my mate washed his engine a while ago and it refused too start after being drowned, i told him to drown the ignition system in crc which he did ,, it started and ran but was still running poorly, turns out he had a cracked coil pak, if its misfiring on 1 or 2 cylanders you can find which cylander has the miss by idling the motor and remove 1 spark plug lead while the engine is running if you have some insulated pliers or multi grips you can remove the lead by the boot carefully dont touch the a metal part of the car with your other hand just in case, if the engine falters when you remove the plug lead you now that lead is working, do it one by one you can do the lead thing by hand,..... but ive had too many accidental zaps, if the ford guys had too remove the plug leads to do injectors or suming perhaps 1 of the leads died, i m not sure but i think coil paks outer casing can can become cracked or brittle from heat and age, i might be completley wrong,.... but my mates el coil paks died earlier this year,........ or revisit sparky let him look at them, good luck

scotty_d · 31-05-2006, 11:25 PM

Have you had the fuel pressure tested? The behavour of the car sounds similiar to what mine was doing.

Is there vaccum getting to the pressure reg, small hose on top of it, pull it off and put your finger over the end to see if there is suction.

Also may not be enough pressure, reg could be leaking not holding pressure allowing fuel to flow straight back into the tank. Don't know about this one just taking stabs in the dark.

I could be wrong but it sounds like a fuel problem to me. could be a faulty sensor but, O2 sensor, MAP sensor etc.

Cheers Scott

autickfordfairmont · 01-06-2006, 12:20 PM

Thanks for all your help guys, i have checked vacume pipes and everything seems fine, it doesnt miss at all when idling, runs fine (miss wise) under 3000rpm, but when it gets there its like its governed, like it the timing is way out, or fuel stops completely, its wierd, i will be geting it checked soon, when i can find the time & cash.

autickfordfairmont · 13-06-2006, 03:37 PM

ok guys, car is booked in for Thursday morning to have a look at whats going on. I will let you all know.
When discussing it with the mechanic he said it sounded very strange, but sounds like a fuel pump issue, but we will see on Thursday.
I will keep you informed of what it is.
I had a look over the weekend at getting the pump out to clean the strainer, but couldnt see anyway of removing the hose clamp around the locking ring without removing the whole bloody tank, so gave that a miss, tried blowing some compressed air back into the pump to see if it would possibly dislodge some in there (If that is indeed the case), but it actually made it worse, so im led to believe it is fuel pump.
We will see.

robbo_yobbo · 13-06-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autickfordfairmont

ok guys, car is booked in for Thursday morning to have a look at whats going on. I will let you all know.
When discussing it with the mechanic he said it sounded very strange, but sounds like a fuel pump issue, but we will see on Thursday.
I will keep you informed of what it is.
I had a look over the weekend at getting the pump out to clean the strainer, but couldnt see anyway of removing the hose clamp around the locking ring without removing the whole bloody tank, so gave that a miss, tried blowing some compressed air back into the pump to see if it would possibly dislodge some in there (If that is indeed the case), but it actually made it worse, so im led to believe it is fuel pump.
We will see.

I will be very interested to find out the deal when you know as my car has a similar problem. it was blowing heapsa black smoke and doing 200kms to a tank, but when took it back to the place I had the engine put in it stopped blowing smoke, thy resett the ecu, and since it surges like its lacking fuel past 3/4gran under hard acceleration, and if your foot is planted flat it just dies altogether and stops.
I'll tell you what its NOT as these are the things ive done since that havnt solved the problem.......

oxygen sensor changed
full 2 1/2" exhaust change w/hiflo cat and headers (the old cat was glowing)
air filters

the remaining possibilities i had in mind were map/maf sensor, throttle position sensor, fuel pump, fuel regulator, injectors, plugs, leads, coil pack, screwed ecu, or I was even thinking maybe the variable camshaft timing was getting too advanced or too retarded maybe under hard acceleration??
other then that im stumped and have no idea. be sure to update when you know!

autickfordfairmont · 14-06-2006, 09:38 AM

no worries man, should have an answer for you tomorrow arvo. We will see what turns up.

autickfordfairmont · 15-06-2006, 02:13 PM

OK heres an update. They have had the car since this morning at 8 am. They have had it hooked up to the scanner with no results, tested fuel pump & pressure, fuel systems & lines, checked ignition leads, plugs, coil pack, they have been working on it for hours, had another AU in there & swapped over ECU's and still no fix, they have absolutely no idea what is wrong, so my car is having a sleep over tonight, and there getting someone down tomorrow with newer & better scanner who knows a fair bit about AU's, to see if he can diagnose whats going on.

BUGGER, DAMN, CRAP.

Ah well, we will see what tomorrow brings, should have an answer or no answer by tomorrow arvo. Will keep you updated.

robbo_yobbo · 15-06-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autickfordfairmont

OK heres an update. They have had the car since this morning at 8 am. They have had it hooked up to the scanner with no results, tested fuel pump & pressure, fuel systems & lines, checked ignition leads, plugs, coil pack, they have been working on it for hours, had another AU in there & swapped over ECU's and still no fix, they have absolutely no idea what is wrong, so my car is having a sleep over tonight, and there getting someone down tomorrow with newer & better scanner who knows a fair bit about AU's, to see if he can diagnose whats going on.

BUGGER, DAMN, CRAP.

Ah well, we will see what tomorrow brings, should have an answer or no answer by tomorrow arvo. Will keep you updated.

Its funny you should say that, mine got hooked up to the computer again today aswell and other than an abs problem, there was no error codes!! the gas tech recons its computer/software problem with the ignition curve, he said although it shows all the symptoms of a fuel problem, its deffiniteley electrical as the symptoms are instant

autickfordfairmont · 16-06-2006, 08:42 AM

but if it was a problem with Ignition curve etc, wouldnt them swapping over ECU's fix it, they did it one mine but no fix.

robbo_yobbo · 16-06-2006, 10:08 AM

Yea, I guess it wouldve - that was his thoughts anyway, I didnt have the ecu swapped over to test mine. Is yours the VCT motor ?

autickfordfairmont · 16-06-2006, 11:05 AM

Nope, just the standard one. So the VCT cant be playing up on mine. If they cant find out whats wrong with it today, then i dont know what i will do, i dont want to take it to fraud again thats for sure.
I still recon its fuel pump though, or maybe regulator, cause i played with it one the weekend to try and loosen and that may be blocking it and it only made it worse. We will see though.

robbo_yobbo · 16-06-2006, 11:13 AM

good luck, Im lucky at the moment coz its all under warranty so Im not paying for it, its just frustrating coz they cant work out the problem

autickfordfairmont · 16-06-2006, 02:46 PM

Well we have an answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUXRVIII

Sounds like a cat converter melt down to me.

Right.

The cat is completely blocked up, (could be from the overfueling before), so im getting it fixed tomorrow morning, hopefully it fixes it. They wanted $461 + fitting for a cat, i can get it done around the corner for $220 fitted so its going there in the morning. If that doesnt fix it, then i will get it looked at again.

sednwol · 16-06-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

They wanted $461 + fitting for a cat, i can get it done around the corner for $220 fitted

That's disgusting, I am assuming that's a Ford dealership repair price! Where's the integrity! :jab:

autickfordfairmont · 16-06-2006, 03:42 PM

no not dealership, NRMA smash repairer & mechanical, my bro got his fuel pump done there and it was very cheap (Half the price) compared to mine done at ford. But with this, they rang repco, thats there price so they charge that, or so they claim, yet 500m down the road the exhaust place only charges 220 Fitted. What a jok. Booked in for tomorrow morning to have it replaced.

robbo_yobbo · 16-06-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autickfordfairmont

Well we have an answer.

Right.

The cat is completely blocked up, (could be from the overfueling before), so im getting it fixed tomorrow morning, hopefully it fixes it. They wanted $461 + fitting for a cat, i can get it done around the corner for $220 fitted so its going there in the morning. If that doesnt fix it, then i will get it looked at again.

Thats what I thought the problem was on mine, so I upgraded the whole exhaust including a hiflo cat and that didnt seem to fix it.
The old cat was totaled due to the original richness of fuel but Im afraid that the cat problem was a sideffect of the real problem (still unknown) and not the cause of it.
Hopefully its not the same for you, but the symptoms and the order they came in do sound extroadinarily similar.

autickfordfairmont · 17-06-2006, 12:34 PM

well just picked it up. The car goes bloody well. Back to its old self (If not better).

My cat was stuffed from the Overfueling that occured. When ford fixed it, it obviously didnt go aswell due to the cat being stuffed, but it took a while for it to completely destroy itself.

Oh and i realised late yesterday arvo that i rang the wrong exhaust place, (There in the same street with the same bloody name), so i rang my guy and it was only $195 for the cat fitted. another $25 saved.

All in all, im happy with it, just hope it stayes fixed and doesnt go like your robbo_yobbo. Hope you find out whats going on with yours. Keep us updated.