Peugeot Vs HSV

**Polyal** · 05-09-2006, 09:39 PM

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Just read the latest e-auto news, according to Mellor's, Peugeot is looking deeply into persueing legal action against HSV for the use of their "307" badge.

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While its probably all huff and puff at the moment, it would be a classic if the Puggsters get all there financial might behind it.

I would think they would have a case, 307 being their new car and all. If it was 306 it mightn't of been such an issue I guess.

Either way, a little more grief for HSV is always amusing. For the rest of the article download it from their site.

MO · 05-09-2006, 09:53 PM

Very interesting was recently looking at getting rid of the XR8 in favour of the Pug 307 diesel.

Really good economy.

ON_DUBS · 05-09-2006, 09:53 PM

some people complain about the most stupid things huh

Smoked · 05-09-2006, 09:54 PM

Hahahahahahahaha.

Holden up to its old stupidity again.

**Polyal** · 05-09-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAIRMONT4.0

some people complain about the most stupid things huh

How is it stupid? Pug would have spent good money trademarking 307.

T3ts50 · 05-09-2006, 10:20 PM

Just like Ford wasnt aloud to use the GT40 name cause someone else had the wrights.

ON_DUBS · 05-09-2006, 10:54 PM

becuase there is not going to be any confusion between a pug 307 and a hsv clubsport 307 its just pety squabble and typical of big business.

heck if pug have any claim what about chrysler?
the "VE" was the 1967 wheels car of the year!

Aeron · 05-09-2006, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3ts50

Just like Ford wasnt aloud to use the GT40 name cause someone else had the wrights.

Ford SOLD the wrights.

Abacus · 06-09-2006, 12:01 AM

Peugeot have a long history of this behaviour.

The Porsche 911 was originally supposed to be the 901. Peugeot sued, Porsche said WTF, and renamed it.

As far as the HSV is concerned, they should have called it a 308 anyway.

Full Spectrum · 06-09-2006, 02:29 AM

Then someone of a long line of dogs that made a car with the number 308 might come back from the dead to sue:P.
They might get away with it as it's not the model name. If it was the Clubsport 307 or HSV 307 then they would get it on copy right. But it's a engine power number it's not in the name which is copy right protected. If the pug dugs wont to get picky they could sue everyone that has a 307 on there number plates lol

.

blackahcdx · 06-09-2006, 07:50 AM

Thing is, the car isn't called the "HSV Clubsport R8 307".

Its Called the HSV Clubsport R8 and the 307 badge simply refers to the cars power output.

If Peugeot have a problem with this then HSV can simply put a small "KW" badge next to 307

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoked

Hahahahahahahaha.

Holden up to its old stupidity again.

Hmmmmmm, strange logic but whatever :p

HSE2 · 06-09-2006, 08:51 AM

You do have to wonder at the thinking behind using 307. They have a tolerance by law which would include 305 to 310. Unless they wanted the publicity, from what I understand they could have used 310 comfortably and avoided this scrutinising completely.

**Polyal** · 06-09-2006, 09:04 AM

Not to mention Holden trying to advertising their cars as euro fighters? Could just be a coincidence but I doubt it.

Fact is that "307" is a pug trademark, and its a big deal because its one of thier main models.

I found it funny if anything, I doubt anything will come of it but if that badge changes then you know why.

drcook · 06-09-2006, 09:54 AM

me thinks pergot will get nowhere with this, seeing (as already mentioned) the 307 is not in the registered name of the product.

Kenaz · 06-09-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

Very interesting was recently looking at getting rid of the XR8 in favour of the Pug 307 diesel.

Really good economy.

Great economy and what I consider to be one of the best looking cars on the market.

MoreHPformyXR6 · 06-09-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAIRMONT4.0

some people complain about the most stupid things huh

If I was a shareholder in the PUG motor co. I would expect them to look after the interest's when I here 307 I think PUG. I dont think its complaining its protecting there interest.

ON_DUBS · 06-09-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

If I was a shareholder in the PUG motor co. I would expect them to look after the interest's when I here 307 I think PUG. I dont think its complaining its protecting there interest.

i think we've already covered the fact that the HSV is not called a 307, its the engine badge on the side of the car.

therefore, pug are being ridiculous.

i don't see HSV being made to change it.

EF, What else? · 06-09-2006, 10:37 AM

I dont think there really is an issue, 307 isn't the name of the vehicle, merely a badge.

I have a historical motoring book which I believe makes mention of the fact that its traditional of Peugeot to name their cars with an "0" in the middle. So if it was an actual name that was being ripped, I wouldnt have a problem with Holden being sued

aualright · 06-09-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

You do have to wonder at the thinking behind using 307. They have a tolerance by law which would include 305 to 310. Unless they wanted the publicity, from what I understand they could have used 310 comfortably and avoided this scrutinising completely.

'310' is probably for the series 2 version..hehe. Just like the '297'.

flappist · 06-09-2006, 11:40 AM

A number cannot be trademarked. This is why the Intel "586" was called a Pentium. Intel had several battles with other CPU makers in every court they could over "486" and lost.

ms33 · 06-09-2006, 12:29 PM

Peugeot Model Numbers
Peugeot names the models of their cars in the x0y format; x describes the size of the car (and hence its class), whereas y describes the model number (the higher the number, the newer the model). Therefore, a Peugeot 406 is bigger and newer than a Peugeot 305. This general rule has its exceptions, for instance the Peugeot 309 was produced before the Peugeot 306. Another exception is certain variants, such as the 206 SW, which is around the size of a 40y car.

This tradition began in 1929 with the launch of the 201. All numbers from 101 to 909 have been deposited as trademarks. Although in 1963 Porsche was forced to change the name of its new 901 coupé to 911, certain Ferraris and Bristols have been allowed to keep their Peugeot-style model numbers. An unsubstantiated explanation for the central '0' is that on early models the number appeared on a plate on the front of the car, with the hole for the starting handle coinciding with the zero.

Peugeot is planning to use a four digit system in the future, with a double zero in the middle. It was tested with the 4002 concept car. The 1007 will be using this system when it is launched in 2005.

source:http://experts.about.com/e/p/pe/Peugeot.htm

Iphido · 06-09-2006, 12:31 PM

Yes, Australian law should get interesting. While Pug might be much bigger than HSV worldwide. Here Holden run the world. Im pretty sure Holden can fight this.

I think it will be a interesting case.

If pug wins does that mean there can be no 206kw or 307kw badges on cars? Are you even allowed to make cars with that power or does PUG own everything.

Or can Ford use 5.40 badges on V8 fairmont Ghias refering to the capacity.. Ohh that would just be asking for it.

**Silver Ghia** · 06-09-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms33

Peugeot Model Numbers
Peugeot names the models of their cars in the x0y format; x describes the size of the car (and hence its class), whereas y describes the model number (the higher the number, the newer the model). Therefore, a Peugeot 406 is bigger and newer than a Peugeot 305. This general rule has its exceptions, for instance the Peugeot 309 was produced before the Peugeot 306. Another exception is certain variants, such as the 206 SW, which is around the size of a 40y car.

This tradition began in 1929 with the launch of the 201. All numbers from 101 to 909 have been deposited as trademarks. Although in 1963 Porsche was forced to change the name of its new 901 coupé to 911, certain Ferraris and Bristols have been allowed to keep their Peugeot-style model numbers. An unsubstantiated explanation for the central '0' is that on early models the number appeared on a plate on the front of the car, with the hole for the starting handle coinciding with the zero.

source:http://experts.about.com/e/p/pe/Peugeot.htm

I remember years ago hearing about Peugeot having the rights to x0y model designations, but then the Mazda 808 came onto the market and I was then confused by the whole issue.

Abacus · 06-09-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms33

Peugeot Model Numbers
Peugeot names the models of their cars in the x0y format;<snip> All numbers from 101 to 909 have been deposited as trademarks,<snip>
source:http://experts.about.com/e/p/pe/Peugeot.htm

Yep, what he said.

Thanks for the url.

new2ford · 06-09-2006, 01:38 PM

Peugeot should go for the Lion badge as well while they're at it!

uranium_death · 06-09-2006, 01:53 PM

Peugeots are among the most overrated imported vehicles in Australia.

The fact that the car is imported and incredibly overpriced gives the impression of exclusivity.

Plus Peugeots look ****.

Give me a falcon anyday.

People sue when they feel threatened...Peugeot know the VE beats the **** out of their bombs.

Aussie!

Abacus · 06-09-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Peugeots are among the most overrated imported vehicles in Australia.

The fact that the car is imported and incredibly overpriced gives the impression of exclusivity.

Plus Peugeots look ****.

Give me a falcon anyday.

People sue when they feel threatened...Peugeot know the VE beats the **** out of their bombs.

Aussie!

But have a look at the interior quality of a 30x or 40x, absolutely first class. No Ford even comes close. A lot of people would buy the pug for that reason alone.

uranium_death · 06-09-2006, 02:36 PM

They cost that much though, and even though Ford don't match it on quality, a car of the equivalent size is considerably cheaper and will still last a long time.

I don't think it's worth the cash.

Australian cars internationally are not exactly known for their quality, but given the fact that they are relatively inexpensive, they are good enough for me.

flappist · 06-09-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms33

Peugeot Model Numbers
Peugeot names the models of their cars in the x0y format; x describes the size of the car (and hence its class), whereas y describes the model number (the higher the number, the newer the model). Therefore, a Peugeot 406 is bigger and newer than a Peugeot 305. This general rule has its exceptions, for instance the Peugeot 309 was produced before the Peugeot 306. Another exception is certain variants, such as the 206 SW, which is around the size of a 40y car.

This tradition began in 1929 with the launch of the 201. All numbers from 101 to 909 have been deposited as trademarks. Although in 1963 Porsche was forced to change the name of its new 901 coupé to 911, certain Ferraris and Bristols have been allowed to keep their Peugeot-style model numbers. An unsubstantiated explanation for the central '0' is that on early models the number appeared on a plate on the front of the car, with the hole for the starting handle coinciding with the zero.

Peugeot is planning to use a four digit system in the future, with a double zero in the middle. It was tested with the 4002 concept car. The 1007 will be using this system when it is launched in 2005.

source:http://experts.about.com/e/p/pe/Peugeot.htm

Yes that was the case back then. Since that time there have been several major court cases that have overturned a lot of existing law. Numbers and letters are "Public Domain" as are country and geographic names, generic words that describe an item etc.

Please note combinations of numbers and letters are not public domain e.g. GT40 or "Peugeot 404" or Coupe4 or GTHO or Falcon (when connected to cars) are all trademarkable where as 486 or Coupe (when connected to cars) or Falcon (when connected to birds) are not.

To try and make this clearer,it is ok to have a Falcon Coupe, GTO Coupe, Monaro Coupe etc. but if Ford were to offer a Falcon Coupe4 they would be in strife as HSV own the rights to the name Coupe4.

Force 6 & Force 8 were trademarked not just Force......
Cross 6 & Cross 8 not just Cross.....

Even McDonalds got their bums kicked when they tried to sue a private restruant named "McDonalds" for breach of trademark. Stupid yank lawyers picked the wrong fight as the restruant was in Scotland.....

Abacus · 06-09-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

<SNIP>
I don't think it's worth the cash.
<SNIP>

And this is the nub of the matter. You don’t think they are worth the cash. So don’t buy one.

Presumably, the thousands of Australians who have bought Pugs over the years do feel they are worth the cash. Different people look for different things in a car. Some want power. Some want to be pampered. Pugs pamper very well.

Personally, I wouldn’t buy one for myself. My car’s a workhorse. That’s why I buy Falcons. But would I buy one for my wife? I certainly would.

[Edit] Mrs Abacus, however, has her heart set on a Renault Megane. I wouldn't buy one of these for myself either. Unfortunately, for medical reasons, Mrs Abacus can't drive at the moment. However when she is well enough to drive again I will happily fork out for the Megane. If it keeps her happy it's worth it.